In each installment of Easy Answers (get the reference?) we will question a different musician or band, ranging from the obvious to the not so obvious, about the importance of Grateful Dead on their own life and musical path. We could easily keep this column within the jam band community – and we will most certainly turn our focus to some of those acts – but the goal of Easy Answers is to get insight from musicians who most wouldn’t expect to be influenced by or fans of the Dead.
The Meat Puppets are a band that needs little introduction. For over three decades the Arizona trio have solidified their status as legends in the world of abrasive, psychedelic rock and roll and punk. Their music doesn’t have a ton in common with the Grateful Dead – at least not on first listen – but the Meat Puppets have always shared a common bond with the Dead in both their willingness to experiment (with music and other things), and in their refusal to bend over just to be a part of the mainstream. These days the band – comprised of founding members and brother Cris and Kurt Kirkwood, Elmo Kirkwood and Shandon Sahm (son of legendary musician and friend of the Dead Doug Sahm) – are going strong, and this summer you can find them on tour with Soul Asylum. Taking time from the tour and his podcast, bassist Cris Kirkwood took the time to get personal on his own love of the Grateful Dead.
So, a good place to start is if you want to talk about how you first got into the Grateful Dead.
After reading some of the other interviews I was trying to figure that out. I was reading Lee Ranaldo’s interview and he’s a little bit older than me, and it made me realize I didn’t really get into the Dead until the 70s. I got into bluegrass at a point and starting playing music myself, and after I saw the movie Deliverance I got a banjo. I was probably like 12 or 13 when that movie came out, and after that I started getting more into the playing side of stuff. Then I got into the typical stuff kids will get into – booze, smoking pot, and somewhere in there I got exposed to the Grateful Dead. At a particular point I started dropping acid and it just went kablooey – that’s pretty much the Garcia quote. Suddenly, music took on a whole new life force – the drive to create really peaked my curiosity. It’s a little bit hazy. I wasn’t that into rock and roll, I didn’t like going from grade school to high school much, the environment was a little off-putting, so I think I purposely sought out stuff that was not what was going on at the time. But getting into the Dead – once I caught wind of them it was an imminent part of my musical development for sure.
I know you said it’s hazy, but do you have any personal memories of seeing the Dead live?
Yeah, I saw them a few times. One of my favorite memories of the Dead – and I think it really encapsulates a lot of what they were – was the first time I saw them in Phoenix. By that time I’d been into them for years and really wanted to see them live. It was probably around ’81 and they were playing at this big outdoor place – [the Meat Puppets] were already a band at that point and I’d done some touring and was into music – and we got lit up, fucking hammered, and did multiple accelerants and whatnot. So me and my brother and our pals drive down to the show and we’re pretty fucked up. It was a fantastic introduction to the Grateful Dead when we pulled into the parking lot and there was a naked man being chased by the police.
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That’s an interesting way to enter a show.
I was like, “this just fits fucking perfectly.” In Phoenix in late summer these big dust storms will roll through, and they’re pretty fucking impressive. Then we ran into some more cool stuff inside the venue; some bikers were there and they had opium and shit – we were fucking hammered. I remember the Dead came out and I was sitting on a grassy field watching this shit and this storm rolls in. They’re playing along and I distinctly remember thinking this is fucking odd – by then those guys had been around for a while – so they’re playing along and it’s a little bit of a “not feeling it today” sort of vibe. Maybe it was just me or that’s just how they did it, but I was just thinking, what the fuck? Why bother playing music? I should be a dentist. Then the storm comes around and they start playing “Big Railroad Blues” and I equated that with the situation they were in, like, look at this shit – you got to roll out all the crap and do these songs and find a reason to play. Do you have to or not, or do you just go through the motions? Suddenly the storm kind of broke – it didn’t quite turn into a downpour or the dust didn’t reach the gig – and those guys just kept chooglin’ away up there and it started to get a head to it. Before you knew it they were just fucking whooping ass and it was a real bitchin’ thing to see the transformative power of rock and roll. It turned me on to what the fuck they were about in a way, about letting it happen. It ended up being a really fucking great gig. I remember afterwards a kid in town rented hotel rooms so we all went down there. I jumped into the hot tub fully clothed and passed out and had to be pulled out [laughs]. So that was one full memory.
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Years later we got to know some of the folks at their office because they were fans of ours, so we were actually able to get into the shows free and go backstage. I got to watch them a few times from the side of the stage, which was a real fucking treat. Meat Puppets have been around for a while and it’s just music and we’re just people, but there’s a few people that really stick out for me and Jerry Garcia was definitely one of them. I remember here in Phoenix one time as they were walking off stage and he walked right in front of me and we made eye contact and he was just like, “Hey man!”
Looking back on it, do you have a favorite time period from the Dead’s history?
Not really. I get asked that all the time about the Meat Puppets, you know, what’s you favorite record and that kind of stuff. I like bodies of work, I think I’m more a fan of that than one specific thing. There are definitely records I gravitate to more than others, but overall it’s just such an impressive body of work that was created. It’s cool because the time you get to that point, it adds an interesting element to seeing an artist or band develop through their life as the aging process has an effect and just being alive. It colors the various periods. [With the Dead], the entirety of their output is exceedingly impressive.
Certain time periods bring certain things – like I’m never going to be able to play like I did on Meat Puppets I – just because I was 21 when we made it. That’s ok, I like what we do now fortunately, and it’s been an interesting experience to live my life through one particular art project. There were years where I’d love to drop [acid] before going onstage and I was losing my fucking mind at points, breaking shit and falling apart. Those guys were stoned as fuck when they were playing a lot and they’d still just kind of stand there and keep reeling it out. Maybe they were a little more aggressive at points – I’ve seen pictures where they were kind of freaking out a little bit – but they were really impressive musicians and Garcia was one of a kind.
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I can never understand how any band can keep it together onstage after taking acid.
We used to do it. On a smaller scale, I think the punk rock thing was similar to the hippie movement. It was just kind of like this artistic movement that happened, so you would get this symbiosis between the band and the audience. At a point there were quite a few years where you could just tell, man this room is lit up and so are we, and we’ll see where it goes. I think the Dead had that kind of relationship with their crowd. It’s not necessary, but if it happens it can make for some really colorful shit. But for me, I’ve gone back and listened to some of the tapes where I was fucked up playing, and I’d be playing the same note for like half an hour.
Jerry probably said the same thing with the acid tests.
It all seems so perfect at the time, but how judgmental do you want to be about your own stuff? With those guys, what’s impressive was their editing process – to refine everything.
Do you have any favorite Dead songs or are there any that really stand out?
There’s so many, I couldn’t name one as my favorite. They’re one of my favorite bands, flat out, and I wouldn’t be where I am without the Dead showing us that rock and roll is about attitude and really caring about something wholeheartedly without caring at all. Some kind of arty bullshit. As far as one song, I really dig the shit out of a ton of them. I remember one time I got some doses from a guy – and I knew him so I was confident in his assessment of the quality – and I went out to the Superstition Mountains, which are rugged. Lost Dutchman’s Goldmine is supposedly out there, and it’s just the fucking desert. It was in the summer so it was real hot, and I went out there and got real good and fucking stoned. I went alone, so it was a little bit dangerous, but I’m from here. I remember I was sitting there just roasting my dick off and all of the sudden I started to see these cat-like kaleidoscopes, so suddenly I realized, oh wait, “China Cat Sunflower”! I was wondering if that’s part of the LSD trip or the influence of the song, because other times I was seeing like purple haze and shit and wondering. I did always love that song though. Really anytime I hear the Dead it’s immediately like going home, a place in my head and my heart that is so familiar and right.
It’s funny because I feel like a lot of fans of the Dead or the Meat Puppets might be surprised that you’re so into the Dead.
I don’t think people would be that surprised that the Meat Puppets were into the Dead, it’s kind of known. It’s kind of like, we were into pot and LSD, and it wasn’t really around in the punk rock scene when we first came around. People were maybe more into crank or something. I don’t know (making Meat Puppets I – parts of it are exceedingly fast and screeching shit – but it ain’t straightforward punk rock at all, it’s our own version of it. Then we also did Sons of the Pioneers’ “Tumbling Tumbleweed” on that and “Walking Boss” from Doc Watson. We were willing to go to different places and we showed a side of ourselves that took everybody by surprise, but it was also profession. There’s the influence from the Dead in doing what the fuck we want to do. We were always kind of the outcast hippies of the punk rock scene anyways, you know.
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When Jerry passed in ’95 it was a crazy year for the Meat Puppets and you also released one of your best albums (No Joke!) in my opinion. Do you remember what it was like and where you were when you heard about Jerry dying?
I actually do, yeah. There are a few of those demises that stick in your mind. I was in bed and my girl came in and told me. That’s all. I remember that moment. I mean, what do you do when somebody passes away, it’s like, that’s it they’re gone. I realized from reading the Garcia [biography] that I’m now older than Garcia was when he died, so he wasn’t a very fucking old guy and it’s just a goddamn shame. Considering he was in a facility when he passed away, it was pretty disheartening because you would think somebody would have been monitoring him more. Rest in peace.
On that note, what do you think about these reunion shows and Trey Anastasio sitting in for Jerry?
I think it’s great, I mean Jerry’s gone so what are you gonna do? I don’t think in any way it’ll be the Dead like they were because it’s not Jerry, but that guy’s a really fucking good guitar player and obviously Phish was extremely influenced by the Dead as far as I can tell. I love that the other guys have kept busy because it’s tough losing somebody. I took myself out of the picture – I didn’t happen to fucking die – but I took myself away from my brother. He lost his band basically, and yet he carried on with all of these other projects and I was really happy that he did during the time I was gone. People love the fucking Dead and following them around, so they need another dose of that for all those folks. There are a lot of good guitar players around, but there’s nobody that’s Jerry. I’m sure it will go over well. If it’s the last stuff they do that’s kind of sad, but it’s like a “this too shall pass” kind of thing.
The Meat Puppets are on tour this summer. For dates and more info check out themeatpuppets.com!
Check out more Easy Answers:
Aron Magner of the Disco Biscuits
2 Responses
I love the Meat Puppets more than the Dead but the Dead are pretty 😎.