Berry Oakley Jr. Talks Father’s Legacy, Allman Betts Band & Honing His Craft (INTERVIEW)

For a musician, there’s nothing like the feeling of a band coming together: the camaraderie, the creative mating of musical ideas, the grooves falling in all the right places. For the Allman Betts Band, that bond has solidified on their second release, Bless Your Heart. Coming a year after their debut, Down To The River, this band of seven – Devon Allman, Duane Betts, Berry Oakley Jr, Johnny Stachela, John Lum, John Ginty and R. Scott Bryan – have crafted not only a supergroup in terms of their lineages but more so because they are just that darn good. All have been in other bands, have paid their dues and survived wild times on the road as young bucks, spent years honing their chosen instruments and have found a niche in a gumbo that tastes oh so good as a whole. “We’re starting to really sound like a band,” Allman told me recently about the growth of the Allman Betts Band. “We just want to continue a tradition of music that is meaningful and that moves people and makes people feel good.”

For Oakley, a family man who makes his home in Florida, it was only natural to settle in with Allman and Betts. It’s well-known that their fathers made music together as part of the Allman Brothers Band but Oakley was well into his teens before he got serious about playing music himself. Raised predominantly in Los Angeles, he got his first real exposure to music via Three Dog Night and The Doors, and from Doors guitarist Robby Krieger, Oakley started honing in on the bass. Friends with Krieger’s son Waylon, they started a band called Bloodline with Miles Davis’s son Erin, Sammy Hagar’s son Aaron and Joe Bonamassa. They lasted for one album. He also played in Robby Krieger’s band, where he learned to be a frontman.

One thing that Oakley loves about being in the Allman Betts Band is that you’re not just one thing. Oakley may play bass but he can sing lead and contribute to the songwriting. His song, “The Doctor’s Daughter,” written for a friend who passed away, is an especially proud moment for him. “It’s a great song that shows the talents of the band, like how we can mix it up,” Oakley told me during our interview when the band was out on a small run in Florida. 

With the Allman Family Revival coming up at the end of this week, December 11th, the guys will reconvene to play at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville to celebrate the life and music of Gregg Allman, whose birthday is December 8th. There will be a limited number of fans allowed inside for the show; others can sign up for the livestream at allmanbettsband.com.

I spoke with Oakley recently about touring, Bless Your Heart, Robby Krieger’s influence, his bass sound and what music means to him.

The Allman Betts Band has been able to play some live shows, more than a lot of other bands have been able to do, so you’ve been lucky.

Oh, very much so and it’s been a blessing. Like, here we are in Florida and we got to be careful and pay attention to what’s going on here but they have the social-distancing, the venue has a mask enforcement and they have the tables set up so there’s space so it’s not all packed. Then they’ve set up a bunch of tables and chairs out on the outdoor patio, kind of the same configuration. So they’re taking the proper precautions, which is nice to see. 

It’s definitely a whole new world with touring. The times have been tough because, you know, people want to bring their politics and all that into it. We’re not about that. We just want to keep everyone healthy and happy and let’s have some music and try to get through it all. And so far the promoters and venues have been very good about working with us on that so we can do this. But you ask any entertainer, the part of the whole thing of it is the social interaction and being together. Even for the musicians, you’re used to being able to talk to people and take pictures and all that, and you really can’t. We really have to be careful and stay in our own little bubble and keep distance from everyone. So it’s definitely a whole new thing to navigate. But everybody is being really good so that helps a lot. We’ve all been tested multiple times to be safe as well. Our goal is try to maintain our little bubble and bring some good music to the people while we’re at it. And it can work, if we all work together. Then we can enjoy this without putting everyone and ourselves at risk. Hopefully, before long we can get back to normal life.

Your latest record, Bless Your Heart, came out over the summer but you didn’t really get to go out there and play it live. 

Yeah, it’s tough, you know, cause when you put a record out you really want to get out there and get that going. But we’ve been pretty lucky and the few little runs we have done have been pretty good and it’s been nice to be able to have an opportunity to bring some happiness to the people.

Where do you see this band’s growth the most from that first album to this one?

All the musicians individually are wonderful guys, playing and talent-wise, and everybody individually brings a lot of experience to the table. Over the year between the first record and the second one, we really brought all that together and really built upon it and we have a really strong foundation now. In a lot of ways, this second record is the beginning of that. That’s what I think the second record really shows, how much we’ve grown as a band and all the directions we can go. And we have plenty more, which again, it’s a great way of showing what this band can do. 

The first record was like, okay, here we are and here we go! Now, this second record is more like, okay, now we’re going to be going all over the place. Don’t just expect us to play blues or just rock & roll. We’re going to do this and that and all points in between! The band has really grown together as a band, as a unit, so the songs and the jamming and the playing, it really comes through on the second record.

You have one of your songs on this record, “The Doctor’s Daughter.” Is it one you’ve had for a while or one you wrote for this record?

No, it’s an old song of mine. During the writing process, I was bringing in different songs to kind of throw in the mix of everything that Devon and Duane had been writing. Growing up back in Los Angeles, there was a lot of us children that grew up together. Dr John, Mac Rebennack, had three daughters that lived out there and my mom and their mom were like bosom buddies, always hanging out, so we naturally all would kind of hang out together. One particular of the three was kind of like my sister. We did all the crazy teenage stuff together and went out and had fun at parties and shows and concerts. Her name was Jessica and we were really tight and good friends for a long time. Unfortunately, she passed away from an overdose about sixteen years ago and that’s where the idea for that song came up. I wanted to write a song for her cause she was always a huge music fan, regardless of her dad being Mac. She liked The Beatles, was a huge Pink Floyd fan. 

So through the years I was slowly writing that song kind of in honor of her and I brought it to the table and was like, “Hey guys, I have this song I wrote for a friend of mine.” I played it for them and they were like, “Yes! This needs to be on the record.” It’s a great song that shows the talents of the band, like how we can mix it up. I move over and play piano and sing, and Devon plays bass, Duane is playing acoustic. So it was nice. It’s a great song to showcase the band’s diversity but also a great meaning behind it.

You have a daughter named Jessica

Yeah, I named my firstborn daughter after her. It’s funny because growing up she always assumed, once she learned about her grandpa’s history, she assumed it was the other song named “Jessica.” (laughs) But she knows she’s named after her “Aunt Jessica.” But a side-story that I think is cute, Dickey Betts came and sat in with us a couple of times and one time I had all my kids there and my daughter Jessica, I was having her talk to Dickey, like, “You know Sweetie, this is the guy who wrote ‘Jessica’ for his daughter, cause his daughter was named Jessica.” And he looked over at my daughter and goes, “You know what, Sweetie, it can be your song too now.” That made her day. Now her name has two big meanings cause the guy himself told her it could be her song too.

You sing lead on this song. How comfortable are you being in the front?

Oh I love it! Fortunately, all three of us – me, Devon and Duane – are without a doubt band leaders and we really balance each other out. Again, we’re really just touching on this cause all our singing styles are different yet the same. Duane definitely has his dad’s vibe, kind of country but a little rock & roll. Devon has got a lot of power and definitely leans towards the rock & roll kind of thing. And I’m kind of like the blues singer of the band. So it’s neat, you know. 

Again, the beauty of the band is we’re a band; it’s not necessarily anybody leading the group per se. I mean, naturally Devon kind of in a way holds the baton but we all kind of follow each other. And without a doubt, depending on the song, we’re always about what’s best for the song so it really doesn’t matter who is leading it as long as the song is sounding good. That’s another beautiful thing about this band is we’re growing past the egos, I guess you could say, which is the best thing for a band. 

Egos can get you in a lot of trouble

Oh yeah! But fortunately, all of us have so much experience we know how to look out for that and keep each other in check, respectively. It’s not like we have any band fights or anything like that. We know how to communicate. It’s like any marriage or relationship, you really got to learn how to talk to each other. So we’ve been very blessed, knock on wood, to have minimal to no drama whatsoever. A problem arises, we work it out and move on. And that’s tough with a big band. A lot of people to keep happy (laughs).

Does songwriting come easy to you or do you have to work on it a while?

I approach every song a little differently. Some songs just pop right out and you write them within a minute, a half-hour. But I’ve had other ones where I’ve sat on them for years putting pieces together. I do enjoy writing with people as well so it’s really just being open to it all. Unfortunately, a lot of my stuff isn’t out there that much. I was in a band in the early nineties with Joe Bonamassa called Bloodline and I did a bunch of writing with that. I’ve written a ton of songs, just none of them are out there. I have them in my pocket, so to speak (laughs). But some other stuff in local bands and whatnot and I’ve worked with a lot of other bands, just kind of being a co-writer. But I love to write and I look forward to writing more, especially with this band.

You mentioned Bloodline. Why didn’t that band last? There were some good songs in that band.

It was just we were all too young and stupid and there was some bad business going on too and the timing, I guess, wasn’t right for everything. It was a good run. I mean, thinking back, I was so young and naïve myself. You know that old saying if I only knew then what I know now (laughs). But at the same time, that band, originally, first started with drummer Erin Davis, Miles’ son, and he left, really for no other reason than he just didn’t want to travel that much. Then things just got weird and started more into just being about Joe rather than being a band so that kind of made it feel weird. We were all so young and naïve. I was maybe, what, twenty-two or twenty-one, something like that. In some ways, it’s probably best that we didn’t try to push it too far (laughs).

You actually played with Robby Krieger as well. What did you pick up from him?

Oh, lots. My mom was previously married to John Densmore, the drummer of The Doors. In essence, she kind of left him to be with my father, but they spent a lot of time at Robby’s house. Growing up, I always spent a lot of time at Robby’s house with Waylon [his son] and Robby had instruments just laying all over the place. So in a lot of ways, Robby had a big part in my learning music growing up. I went out on the road with the Allman Brothers in 1989, with Devon and Duane and all that, and I came back to LA and after that Robby kind of grabbed me and Waylon and said, “Since you guys aren’t doing anything, I might as well put you guys to work!” (laughs) 

I think it was more of a Dad thing than trying to get us into music. He just wanted us to do something rather than just being lazy teenagers (laughs). We’d always been farting around with all his gear and all that and he’d been showing us stuff anyway, so he just kind of hired us into his band, me and Waylon, and for years and years, even when we got in Bloodline, when we were off, we’d go and play with Robby; and even after Bloodline, we were still playing with him on and off. He was like, “Alright you boys, get to work! Learn these songs!” (laughs) 

So Robby is just awesome on so many levels. In a way, he was definitely one of my earliest mentors and biggest influencers. That’s how my singing started because we really didn’t have a singer in the band so he’d make me learn all The Doors songs as well. He’d sing about two of them and then I’d sing all the rest of them. So it was a great way for me to start learning to sing. 

You didn’t get into playing bass until your later teens, correct?

Yes and no. I was a typical teenager, probably around fifteen or sixteen, and my mom got me one of those cheap little Casio keyboards. Then I bought like a little Squier Strat, it was like a hundred dollar Strat, and then I found this cheap bass, some $150 bass, and I just kind of tinkered around with all three of them all the time. But it wasn’t till I was about sixteen or so I started really leaning on the bass stuff and really wanting to learn it, like genuinely (laughs). Then I started really getting interested in music, not just listening to it but who are the people and where do they come from, blah blah blah. Then naturally learning about my own music history and understanding it. It was definitely a weird childhood and I got into playing late. I definitely wasn’t like a prodigy (laughs).

When you first started learning how to play the bass, what was the hardest thing for you to get the hang of?

Just the stamina, cause you learn that the bass is really, in a lot of ways, holds it together. Guitarists can be loose during a song and solo between rhythms or whatnot but when you’re playing bass, kind of like the drums, you have to keep going from start to finish. So it was really just building up your stamina. Not so much all the tricks and licks and all that stuff but just building a good stamina so your actual playing sounds good cause you’re not getting tired. When I was younger, a lot of it was just building the strength to sit there and just do that tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-tap. After doing that for about five minutes, your fingers will cramp up real good.

Do you prefer to play with a pick or your fingers?

I do both. I play with my fingers and a pick. It really depends on the song, to be honest. It just gives it a different kind of sound. And it doesn’t work for every song for me, definitely not, so I go back and forth a lot. A lot of the Allman Betts songs are done with just fingers but some of them I will play with a pick. My dad was a real big pick player. He mainly played with a pick and then once in a blue moon he’d play with his fingers.

How long did it take you to know what kind of bass player you wanted to be?

Oh gosh, I mean, realistically, I’m still learning all that (laughs). But you start to find your niche and you kind of realize some things just aren’t for you, even if you learned it. I could be one of those noodly kind of players but it just doesn’t fit me, it’s not really my thing. I’ve always been more of a rootsy kind of guy. But you know, it still is kind of a journey, although I’m more a kind of rootsy, down home, beef and potatoes bass player. I definitely have a lot of my father’s traits in me. I like to, I call it chasing guitar players, where you kind of follow the lines they’re playing, which is a lot of fun.

I talked to Jack Casady earlier this year and he told me he has forever been chasing the tone.

Yeah, that’s the thing too. I mean, I’ve got to admit, I’ve been real lucky with my main rig and the setup I’m touring with now; it’s like perfect. It’s kind of funny, the irony is over the years you’re always searching for that tone and you get all these toys and different things and you spend all this money in all these years and then you find something and, “Oh, that’s cool!” and now I want to play that, but what do I do with all that other stuff? Darn, darn, darn! (laughs) I still have my first bass. I’ve got a lot of toys I could bring but it’s just not quite the tone I’m looking for with this band. Right now, I’m pretty happy with the tone I have with this band. It fits perfect.

So tell us about the bass that you’re playing right now

My main one is an old 1966 Fender Jazz bass. It looks a lot like one of my dad’s. I have a bunch of my dad’s as well but this one I bought many years ago, back in 1992, I want to say, when I was in Bloodline. Mainly I didn’t want to travel with my dad’s instruments. I was kind of nervous because they’re really valuable and you want to keep an eye on them. But I did want that old wood and that old sound so I found this one and I’ve had this particular bass ever since. Like I said, I have all these toys but I always kind of circle back around to that one and it just sounds the best for the songs and the band. 

When you guys play an Allman Brothers song, are you trying to play what your dad played or are you adding yourself into it more?

The irony is a lot of the fans think, by blood, I’m going to know it perfectly. But oh no, I’ve got to study it too to figure out what my dad was doing. But I definitely have liberties with it to put in my own little isms, so to speak. That’s kind of the fun of it too. We’re keeping the music alive, and definitely, we stick to the formula and the sound or what have you, but we add our own. It’s in our blood so obviously, we’re going to sound like our fathers, even when we’re trying not to (laughs). But I know for me, definitely, if we’re playing “Elizabeth Reed” or something like that, I’m going to play a lot of what Dad would have played, or did play, but I am definitely adding a lot of my own little things here and there, kind of bridging the gap or just imagining, what would he have done if he was still playing it? So yeah, just adding my own flavor to it too, which I think everybody does. With Duane, the fans are like, “He’s so Dickey,” and he is, he’s definitely a Betts without question, but growing up with them and myself watching Duane evolve over the years, he’s definitely turned into his own guitar player. He’s Duane now, he’s not trying to be some other guitar player nor copy his dad. 

Same with Devon. He’s not 100% his father.

They are night and day. Gregg had a whole different vibe. For instance, that band he had prior to his passing, I think that ultimately over the decades, was his dream band. As much as he loved the Allman Brothers, without a doubt, Gregg had a different kind of vibe with music and that band of his, which was a killer band. Devon is more of a rocker and I think he has a little more of his uncle in him. He’s definitely his father’s son but on the music side, I think he’s got a little more of Duane in him. He likes to be a little edgier than his father was. His dad liked to be a little more laid back. And when he does come down to the more mellow stuff, he’s great at that too, without question. He’s got a great soul and his approach to the songs and the music, he has a great range as a vocalist, so it’s fun to see where he takes things.

Which song on Bless Your Heart, other than “The Doctor’s Daughter,” do you really feel your imprint on?

I’d have to say the instrumental that Duane wrote, “Savannah’s Dream.” Mainly because after we got it all together, figured out where it was going and yada yada, I asked Duane, “What do you want? This is your song so tell me how I should go.” And he goes, “Just be Berry Oakley, go for it. I’ll tell you if I don’t like something.” So I just played, you know. So I’d say as far as Berry the bass player goes, that song is a great example of, okay, there’s me playing (laughs). I’m very conscious of the song and what somebody brings and you respect it, so I’m like, hey, you want me to play less or you want me to play more? On “Savannah’s Dream,” Duane was like, “Go for it, man. Just go, go, go.” I was like, alright, you asked for it, here it comes! (laughs)

Which of these songs do you remember you guys working on the longest in the studio to get it right?

That’s a good question, you may have stumped me (laughs). Luckily, going in this second time, the band being so much tighter, it was really easy to get through, even the confusing stuff. We really honestly did have, and I’m not trying to be like, oh we’re perfect, an easier time. There were a couple that we had to come back to but I just can’t remember which one it was. It might have been “Pale Horse Rider,” cause I think that one we did it late in the day and we’d already done a couple and everybody was tired and we’d had a giant chicken dinner (laughs) and we went in to kind of do it and it wasn’t feeling right. So I’m thinking that one for those reasons but we came back the next day and did it. Again, fortunately, coming in doing this second record, the band was so much tighter so we really just smoothly got through everything, which was really nice.

In the video for “Pale Horse Rider,” you get to lay around in the dirt. Was that fun or more tedious?

(laughs) I didn’t mind, it’s just moments in time. I’ll look back one day and laugh my butt off. Everyone is always teasing me about my big acting debut, that I’m going to leave the band and go have an acting career (laughs). But it was fun and we had a great time. It was really just kind of off the cuff – “Alright, we’re going to try this and try that and see what happens.” Okay, cool (laughs). “Now go lay down in the dirt.” Alright, sure, whatever. Fortunately, it worked out good and it wasn’t too ridiculous. I had to do it about five times. The guy who was filming was like, “Okay, we got to do it again and I’m going to be right up close on you. Then I’m going to stand way back here so get back on the ground.” (laughs) 

Johnny Stachela plays some amazing slide in this band. What else do you think he adds to make this band so good?

Johnny is amazing. Having three guitars is always weird. There are not many bands that have that but again, it’s perfect. Like the singing – with me, Devon and Duane – Johnny, Devon and Duane, the way they play off of each other is amazing. They don’t step on each other and you can really hear who is doing what. Johnny is just amazing. He’s got a great ear and that’s one thing you look for in any musician. He knows exactly when to play, when not to play, where to play. I just love everything he does. He is like the perfect guy. Johnny is like the gravy. It all sounds good and it tastes great but it’s even better when you put the gravy on it. He makes it taste that much better.

What was the first song you obsessed over as a kid?

It would definitely have to be The Beatles. As a young kid, as far as things I would play over and over again, I had one of the Greatest Hits ones. I was pretty young, probably about seven or eight, and I think it was the one with the blue cover and they’re leaning over a balcony looking down. But I had just that one cassette and one of those handheld things that had the speaker and you’d put the cassette in it and push play. And I just played that thing over and over and over again. I was still playing with toys but I do remember obsessively having to listen to The Beatles over and over again.

The blue album was the more experimental music so it must have been mind-blowing to a kid.

It was! When I was three years old, my mom got remarried, to Chuck Negron of Three Dog Night. They were married till I was about fourteen, I want to say, so I grew up around a lot of Three Dog Night and that music and those shows. I really didn’t know about the Allman Brothers till later, and again, I was just a kid, I didn’t know nothing (laughs). Then, like I said, I got into that Beatles record and that’s really what kind of got me into everything, cause I had been hearing Three Dog Night and obviously Doors stuff so it was already kind of embedded without me choosing it. But when I first heard The Beatles, especially that record, it was like, ooohhhh, this is cool, this is going to really weird places (laughs).

Who was the most innovative bass player you ever heard?

Probably the one who played with Peter Gabriel, Tony Levin. I’m pretty sure he played the bass on So, which was 1986 when that came out. It had “Sledgehammer” and all that on it. I remember when I first heard that, and I was just starting to understand instruments and bass, listening to that was like, wow, the bass can do that?! It really blew my mind.

We’ve lost a number of wonderful musicians this year alone. Which one hit you the hardest?

It’s hard to say, cause we’ve just been losing people one after the other and it’s like, oh my God, it sucks, you know. There’s the irony of time, I guess. This year, it’s hard to say cause so many awesome cats have passed, I don’t even know how to really express. That’s usually why I don’t say much on social media cause I want to pay respects to everybody but it’s usually more privately with families and stuff like that. But Charlie Daniels, I really didn’t know him, as I met him later. Duane and Devon knew him a lot more than I did and had met him a lot earlier in life. I only just recently met him when we went and opened for them for a while and he was a real sweetheart, really nice guy, obviously a great performer. I was bummed when he passed. I’ve known about him all my life, I just didn’t get to know him. So it’s really hard. John Prine was definitely tough, but I never got to meet him or anything. The legacy he left behind was awesome. We’re losing a lot of the great ones and it’s tough.

Definitely, the hardest one was when Gregory passed [in 2017]. We were obviously close and I knew Gregory really well. I spent a lot of time with Gregg. It was tough but I try to stay on the positive side. Like, thank goodness they left these wonderful memories of music to us and as long as we keep those memories in music alive, then they are always with us. And fortunately, there is a lot of good newer music coming out and that’s filling the void, so to speak. We all love our live music and if they’re not around to do it, we need somebody out there doing it. We always want to play homage to our fathers and stuff but we’re not trying to do an Allman Brothers show but we do try to balance it out.

Do you know where your ancestry lies? 

My mom’s family, they’re all Irish. They immigrated to New York, Ellis Island. On my father’s side, I think it’s half Irish, half English, and that family kind of immigrated through Chicago and that’s where the Oakley’s were. So mostly I’ve got a lot of Irish in me (laughs).

Speaking of families, you’re like Jonny Lang in that you are populating the Earth with all your kids.

(laughs) Yeah, I got a lot. The Oakley tribe is big. I figured I had to catch up with all these Allmans and Trucks that are out there and I’d better get some Oakleys out there (laughs).

What is the greatest thing about music to you?

Just the healing properties. Throughout my whole life, even as a child, you get a connection to it. These songs take you back to a place, a time, a feeling, or they help you calm down, help put a smile on your face. And there is the flip side of that. There’s all that hard stuff, if you’re into that kind of thing, you can go rage it out with your music. It really is, to me, the universal language that can really heal all. And there’s something for everybody, it’s just a matter of what you’re into.

 

Group portraits by Kaelan Barowsky

Live photos by Ross Mickel

 

 

 

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