Getting Serious With Shannon McNally

She is probably rock’s most talented undiscovered gem. This woman with the confident voice, pin-point lyrics and effortless guitar playing has actually been around for years. Yet, if you ask the average music fan, they look at you with a sort of blank expression. And this is a shame because Shannon McNally can rock your socks off at the same time she is hitting you over the head with words that actually make sense.

Shannon has a brand new CD out called Western Ballad that features some of her best songwriting to date. Although not as spirited as her previous endeavor, Coldwater, Shannon takes time to reflect on life with a much more mature tone that at times falls into a bluesy melancholy. 

With a career oeuvre of eclectic songs, Shannon was excited to sit down and talk about some of her new material with Glide, as well as give her unapologetic opinions on the current state of music, unsung musicians and the joys of being a rock & roll mom. Born in New York yet adopted by the Mississippi soil, Shannon is the kind of singer-rocker-songwriter that has spent years giving her blood-sweat-and-tears on stages all across the country. And now its time that everyone finally took notice of this genuine talent.

Hi Shannon, I wanted to start out by asking you about how hard it is raising a child being a working musician who is recording and on the road a good part of the time? How do you do it?

Well, we take a nanny on the road and we have a big van and we take her toys and her videos and her books and her stuff. You know, it’s all she’s ever known really. Her day is pretty organized cause it’s a pretty rigid life on the road as far as schedule is concerned so she responds to that. She is two.

So you can still pick up and go right now?

Pretty much, yes. I mean, she’s off the road now, we’re off the road for the most part till April really. So we’ll just play it by ear. We’re going to play school by ear as well.




That will probably be a whole different change when that time comes I assume.

I don’t know. I’m not very impressed with schools in general. I don’t have excellent schools here where I live but you know my husband’s a teacher, or was a teacher. We do a lot of teaching in the van. She can identify all her letters, she can count to twenty, and she knows all her colors, she knows all her animals and shapes. Until it’s beyond our combined knowledge, I don’t see the point. I think a lot of school is pretty spirit crushing, unless it’s the right school. I think so far, she’s completely fine as long as she gets enough play time and we’re all pretty engaged when we’re out there. It’s a little bit more of a challenge but it’s a good challenge because it forces me to eat better (laughs). It forces a lifestyle that actually promotes longevity so you can go for longer periods of time and then go harder because you feel good.

Do you get tired of being on the road so much?

I look forward to being home. I love traveling and I love playing. You know, the only thing I wish for is bigger rooms and I just want to keep growing. Other than that … (laughs).

Do you think there will come a day when you will stop doing music and just be Mom? Can you imagine your life not creating music?

I don’t see a point of that. I don’t think of it as a choice that has to be made. I understand the question, but you organize your life to be who you are and there are an awful lot of mothers in the world and I don’t necessarily think it’s in the best interest of the child to, once you get pregnant, say ok, my life is over. I just find that really strange. I’m raising a girl. I feel like if I’m going to raise her and tell her that she can go forward and be what she wants to be and she can be an artist or she can be a doctor or an Indian chief or whatever she wants to be, then that’s what she is. So obviously you organize your home life and your personal life so that is all possible and obviously you have to have support.

You’ve had music in your life for pretty much your whole life. But when did you know this was what you wanted to do?

I guess being a songwriter and a singer and just an expressive person it doesn’t come out of nowhere one day. I get that question a lot too. I didn’t really think about what to do as a career. I didn’t think about it as a career, as a way to make money. I just didn’t see any way of NOT doing it and it sort of took over and then it was like how am I going to KEEP supporting this (laughs). Then the business end of it kicked in. I could go to college obviously. It wasn’t like I was oblivious to how to make money or you have to make money to survive in the world. I had a lot of family support and I came from people that had to work very hard for generations and generations and didn’t go to college. So when I went to college they kind of, their attitude was, go to college and think and understand and we’ll help you as much as we can. And you know we don’t live very high on the horse. But I would say in college, just after college when I started recording, once I first did a real recording and realized how intense and enticing it is, it was pretty much done. It was about how can I record more and how can I keep getting better and how can I keep growing and how do I do more shows. It was pretty self-propelling.

Was it hard being a new musician and getting yourself heard and being taken seriously?

Yeah, it’s really hard. It’s very hard as a young woman. I don’t know if it’s any harder as a young man. I know that the situation that you find yourself in as a young, say twenty year old woman, is that in the post-Madonna world everybody needs or wants to be a stripper. And you have no interest in that and they almost look at you like, why are you here? … To be a songwriter and to identify with the classic rock world, you get overlooked a lot. You don’t fit into stereotypes, especially as a guitar player. Guitars are so, in modern rock, so phallic that to reinvent the guitar as less of a phallic statement takes some creativity and it takes a bit of open-mindedness on the audience’s part because initially they’re pretty confused.

Did you find that you had to work harder than say the guy down the street who was playing in a club drawing people when you knew you were as good as or better than he was?

Well, you know, I think it’s pretty hard out there for young guys as well because they’re trying to … there’s two billion guitar players out there and what makes something really good is an intense amount of subtlety. And it’s very difficult because there are so many people that fancy themselves musicians or that want to do it or have free time on their hands (laughs). There’s an awful lot of schlock out there. So it’s always hard and I think it’s just a matter of, it’s a magic trick every single time you’re successful on any level and then it’s just a matter of improving on the magic trick.

Did you have like a mentor that took you under their wing and gave you guidance early on?

I had a number of them, a number of people that helped me in various ways, a number of musicians. You know I worked with Dr John a lot and that’s sort of been more like an advanced mentorship cause he’s certainly no beginner lessons right there. But I worked with Jim Dickinson, I worked with Charlie Sexton, I worked with a lot of great session players like Jim Keltner and James Gadsen, Bob Glaub, Bill Paine, Benmont Tench, Ian McLagan. All of those guys, once you’re in their presence and you’re playing, getting to that point is hard, but once you’re there you stand in a room with people. People communicate with you based on your level of ability to communicate and manifest the music. I would say I learned something from all of those people. There’re a lot of places to learn from and I try and keep myself surrounded with people that know more than I do, that are more fluent on their instrument and write better songs. I like to be in over my head (laughs) because you just learn more that way so you have to kind of be the constant kid. It becomes a spiritual pursuit as much as a technical pursuit. It becomes what you make it.

You mentioned Jim Dickinson. You were actually part of the CD that his son Luther put together called Onward and Upward in tribute to his dad. And it was nominated for a Grammy. That must make you feel good that it has gotten such great recognition.

Oh yeah, that was a huge affirmation in working with Luther and working with Jim. You know that whole scene here in North Mississippi and Memphis has been incredibly welcoming, as welcoming as the scene in New Orleans was, and I’m grateful for all of it. They mean a lot and we all clicked pretty quickly. There is just so many signposts out there that let you know you’re on the right track. Luther is tremendous, absolutely. That’s what I mean. I like having friends that are really good and they’re just pushing you in so many ways. Luther works incredibly hard. He’s always doing something new, always, and he’s going to be a great producer as time goes by cause he really is good.

What was it like working with Charlie Sexton on Southside Sessions? And do you think you’ll work with him again?

He’s way past talented and of course highly in demand. Bob [Dylan]’s got him pretty tied up. But I do hope so. I would work with him anytime anywhere. It’s always a matter of lining up the mission (laughs) which you know is wrought with any number of scheduling and financial difficulties but if those things work out I would certainly work with him again. I was lucky to get to work with him in the first place. It worked out time wise and we had the support and maybe those things will come together again. You know it’s always a miracle being able to connect schedules, especially with people that are of Charlie’s ilk.

I’m so glad people finally saw past the hair (laughs).

(laughs) Physically he’s just beautiful but it is distracting. I know for a lot of people it’s distracting. But that’s kind of like what girls end up against. They’re just a pretty girl, and people are so confused, and that happens to Charlie (laughs).

You have a great new CD out called Western Ballad. Its very mood, almost melancholy compared to Coldwater, your previous release.

This record is definitely moodier. My collaborator Mark Bingham is pretty great. I think I’ve always been on the verge. I think on this record I, in many ways, let it go even another layer deeper towards the melancholiness. I think most artists have, especially if you’re struggling in this new business model to survive with the amount of stuff out there. You’re still up against the riff-raff and the ridiculousness that passes for art. Oftentimes you’re not recognized even though you know it’s much better (laughs). Don’t mean to be frank. You just get so used to being rejected by nimwits that you don’t even know how to comment on it anymore.

Does that frustrate you?

Of course, it’s fundamentally frustrating and depressing and you find whichever mechanism you can to operate despite it, despite the cultural norms that you’re up against, the massive cultural norms and advertising blitzes that you’re up against, and you are up against them. There’s not two music businesses; there are and there aren’t. Like I said, at some point music is a spiritual pursuit and therefore is the reward in and of itself. But you do have to make a living. So balancing those two realities I think it’s very sobering and it verges on the melancholy when you are truly talking about, when you really communicate, it’s sometimes very melancholy. Sometimes it’s just huge. But the trick I think is searching for joy in the melancholy, admitting the melancholy. Everybody has seen so much television now, everybody can kind of put on their game face to be happy on the surface. I guess that is what art is really about. Art is about the whole picture, about how you truly feel and can you communicate that in an honest way but still keep up appearances. But can you do it in such a way that is honest and still allow your joy to come through. I’m rambling cause I’m thinking as I’m speaking (laughs).

You tend to use your own feelings. On this one, is it a lot of your own emotions or are you putting out stories out of your curiosity of other emotional situations?

You know, anytime I’m writing it’s pretty personal. Sometimes you might mask that by changing the pronouns and the names and the places but you’re always really discussing how you’re interpreting something, even if it’s in the third person. There’s always that element.

I’d like to ask you about a couple of the songs on the new CD. One of my favorites is “Memory Of A Ghost”.

It’s sort of back to the complex outlook of reality, looking on your reality. It’s only a bit complex if you actually think about it in multiple terms and sort of approach life as a hologram. If you take the idea that the universe is a hologram and therefore you will things to happen and you make things happen with thought and with words and with speech and intention and all that kind of stuff then there’s always a flip side to reality, there’s always the other side of the mirror. There’s the negative of a photograph. If you think of your life in those terms, it’s liberating. I don’t mean to be too obtuse but like the memory of a ghost is like remembering something that is already a figment or a phantom; sort of a double negative. So the song is really about the double negative of your experiences and opening up your psychic pathways and living on multiple planes at once. It’s a little bit spooky but to me that’s what it’s about. You know, when I write a story, sometimes you just pick words. If you string enough words together that leave you with an impression or a feeling, it’s like a painting in so much it’s a lot of colors and when you look at it, it might not be a flower like you know it but you come away with something etched in the back of your mind. That’s the way the songs are for me and how a lot of great songs are. Some people are really great at writing very cut and dry. And that’s a real talent, not my biggest talent.

What about “In My Own Second Line”, which has a little slinkiness to it.

That one was pretty Mark Bingham. I co-wrote all the songs on the record and Mark had some real strong feelings on that one, which I identified with. That’s the beauty of working with a partner. You both can kind of be in the same place. That song is more or less about recreating your life after Katrina.

“Thunderhead” is about the birth of your daughter, correct? I really like that one.

I really like it too (laughs). It’s nice to hear that you’re liking it.

I like the whole CD. I could go song by song asking you about them (laughs). And I don’t lie.

Well, you and I have that in common. Whenever people say to me, oh that’s so sweet, I say, no, it’s just true. It doesn’t always work out … When I had Maeve, I found it so interesting being pregnant and the things that people say to you. And like everything else, I found that once I was experiencing it firsthand I decided that, like many things, I experienced it differently than the way people told me to expect it. And I thought childbirth was the best part of being pregnant. I wanted to do it drug free, and so many people were so immediately opposed to the idea. I don’t know, I was fascinated with the idea with just the way the body works and to the point that I thought, well if I need medicine or I need pain reliever, I will take it; but please don’t give it to me until I feel like I absolutely have to have it. And part of the reason that I felt that way, well when I think about the actual birth, yeah, obviously it hurts a lot (laughs). Pretty painful but what I thought of it, unlike other pain, you know what it is and you know once that baby comes it’s going to stop. It’s not like you broke your leg and you’re not going to a doctor. To me, it was more of a mental thing. The other thing I connected to was that I’m pretty fascinated with most Native American history and culture. I find it all so pretty right on. There is a reason they survived forty thousand years here (laughs). They were just very connected and people say that and it becomes almost trite to say it, but there is a ceremony that they have called, in the plains Indians, called a Sundance for warriors. Basically they would fast for four days and then, well, it was a flesh offering, and only men had to do it. What it was was they basically designed it to be the male version of childbirth since men can’t do it. Women didn’t have to do it because they gave birth. There’s a cleansing. So much of the ceremony is to be cleansed and adjust to the new circumstances or the new season. To be at balance so that you can best take advantage of the resources and the energy available to you. And that’s the way I looked at childbirth, as much at the same time I just don’t see it as a cross. And I don’t mean that in the very sort of staunch old Christian view of well, it’s a payback for original sin or it’s payback for eating the apple off the tree and therefore you shouldn’t … But I’ve heard that, amazingly enough, and it kind of blew my mind. Like you’re supposed to suffer during childbirth because basically Eve screwed it up for everybody (laughs). You’re getting it back for Eve. So it’s just a different approach to the pain and how I thought childbirth, you know, the bliss that comes after childbirth is just so enormous and I thought that some of that gets lost in the anesthesia and the panic and the caesarian sections and the way you go about childbirth. So “Thunderhead”, to make a long story short (laughs) is sort of an ode to how beautiful it is. I think we get it wrong. Obviously everybody is afraid, it’s scary not to be in a hospital in case something goes wrong. But I think we can get to a better place where we can have the best of both worlds where it’s just one of those things. But anyway… (laughs).

“Rock & Roll Angels” seems kind of sad.

I think its back to the melancholy. It’s a very hard life and it’s one that you are constantly bearing yourself. Being a musician out there on the road it’s a lot less glamorous than anybody would ever imagine, especially the way most people do it. I mean, when you’re U2 or really have cash it’s a whole other ball game, but the money isn’t always there. So people have visions of rock & roll as a pretty self-indulgent and extravagant and sex-drugs-&-rock-&-roll; whereas that might have been the case at one point. These days, a lot of that is just not the case. It’s an amazing amount of work. It’s an eighteen hour day everyday out there and you really have to be dedicated to why you’re out there. It’s amazing this particular business really draws two different kinds of people; it draws the people who are incredibly sincere and driven by emotion and driven by vision and then it draws all the people that prey on that. So you’re always balancing the two. And basically that’s what that one is about.

For the title cut, which is an Allen Ginsberg poem, how did you pick that particular work of art to create something musical around?

Well, that sort of came after the fact. We’d done a lot of songs and Mark had worked with Allen in the eighties and he’s a good friend and fan of Allen. I am too of most of the beat poets. They were sort of the ultimate artists and even though it’s still a narrow-minded galaxy and our limitations and our involvement emotionally, if I can put that aside and I can see it as in the neutral, it’s pretty sexist but it is of the time. But if you can get past that and you can adopt some of their outlook, which was that creativity was boundless, it is its own reward. Then your whole idea of questioning authority and questioning the way you think, it’s just expanding your boundaries and expanding the possibilities for happiness. It’s pretty exciting and Allen was really one of the bigger godfathers of that in the last century. Once we had the body of songs in motion and we begun recording them and tweaking them and finishing them, the overall sentiment and thought process of it I guess made Mark think about this song that he remembered from Allen and he brought it to me and it really did sort of sum up everything we were talking about. It just became the natural centerpiece.

So what is your goal as an artist?

I think my goal is to keep getting better and to expand my audience and to line up the art and the business so that it feeds itself and it’s possible. It takes a lot of money to make music, to put it out, to tour; it’s all staggeringly expensive. I think that’s a lesson, to keep going and to have the infrastructure match the creative because it’s critical for the creative to have the infrastructure. It’s kind of a boring thought but it is important. I want the infrastructure that allows me to keep going … I’m a very highly organized person, almost to the point of like mild OCD (laughs) and it drives me crazy when things are not, when I know there is a better way, kind of like an operating system on your laptop. If you know your operating system is three years old it’s going to impede your creative. I guess the big goal is to have the infrastructure that really supports the creative output and freedom to experiment and to do things and to create.

For more info see:  http://shannonmcnally.com/

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