Brandi Carlile may not yet be a household name, but chances are you’ve heard her music before. While she’s been on the scene for a relatively short amount of time, much of her first album found its way onto many pivotal Grey’s Anatomy episodes. All of a sudden this emerging female singer-songwriter from outside Seattle, WA, flanked by the inimitable twin duo Phil and Tim Hanseroth, exploded onto the national stage. Armed with a few acoustic instruments and voices of such power and magnitude seldom heard, Brandi and “The Twins” have established themselves as venerable forces beyond simply folk music and into the broader reaches of Americana, country, rock and bluegrass.
If there’s one word that could characterize the beginnings of Carlile’s career, it would be “earnest.” The songs on her debut album tackle the difficulties of love and heartbreak with the emotional weight of someone way beyond her mid-twenties. While the lyrics left much to be desired, Carlile’s intent on tapping into a cultural and emotional consciousness was not only admirable but wholly engrossing. Songs like “Tragedy” and “Fall Apart Again” are particularly good examples, showcasing a keen sense of melody and harmony matched with equally affecting depth and spirit. The follow-up sophomore album The Story only further cemented Carlile’s deserved spot among her pop/rock contemporaries. Digging into grandiose, huge melodies and choruses buffeted by searing electric guitars and heavy basses, Carlile experimented with more aggressive folk, while also deepening her interest in the fragility of the ballad. The Story proved that Carlile had much more to say than could be seen on her debut album, and its rawness provided the album much needed validity in its aims.
Since then, Carlile has released the brilliant Give Up The Ghost and has developed a live act paralleled by few. It’s hard not to speak in hyperbole when discussing Carlile and her career, because in so many ways she continues to improve and grow as an artist. Her songwriting has both tightened and experimented with new territories. Her lyrics have become more emotive and powerful. But most of all, Carlile continues to shine with the authenticity that at first came across as sheer earnestness, but now is a matured sagacity that is utterly compelling.
Glide Magazine had the chance to speak with Brandi a couple days ago about the upcoming release of her new live album, Live at Benaroya Hall with the Seattle Symphony. During our conversation, Brandi opened up about all aspects of her career, ranging from beginning in Seattle up to the new studio album she’s already recorded. In the meantime, we also touched upon her strong bond with the Indigo Girls, her love for recreating synth-based 80s music and why she’s carrying on Dolly Parton’s well-deserved diva flame.
You’re about to release a live album you recorded at Benaroya Hall with the Seattle Symphony back in 2010. How long had that collaboration been in the works?
More than a few years. I’d played with them back in 2008, so the collaboration had been talked about for a long time. In the meantime, we put out Give Up the Ghost and we got some more symphony charts done, with Sean O’Loughlin and Paul Buckmaster (arrangers). And so we decided to just go for it.
Did you go into these shows hoping to make a live album, or was it a desire to play your music with the Symphony? Or perhaps was it both?
Probably both. I’ve always wanted to make a live album, and I always wanted the fourth album to be my live album. I had ideas for how that would be done. I’d thought we could record an entire tour and then put together a compilation of highlights and songs and then name the record after that tour. Or that we’d pick a really special venue, do some shows there and then name the record after the venue. But once we got our first symphony charts, I was totally convinced that that was the right live album approach– to do a symphony record. There’s something very simply but classic about that.
How did you construct the setlists for these shows? With the consideration that you had to give Paul and Sean (orchestral arrangers) songs early on to accommodate writing the charts, how did you choose what songs to perform?
Yeah, we had to choose all the songs we wanted to do and then give them off to the people arranging them. And then they send these pseudo-string files back to you that sound like what you’d hear in a video game. But you can tell what everything is and that it’s going to be really cool, but you have no idea how it’s going to sound like on stage.
Even though you make a setlist and you have all these recording considerations when approaching a live album, it’s amazing how much of that gets thrown to the wayside when there are 3,000 people in a room. That becomes the most important thing, and you go into this sort of “fight or flight” mode and the show becomes what’s happening right there on stage in front of that audience. The recording, then, becomes something that is on the backburner. So, I didn’t consider the recording of the live album in any way, except that I knew that we were playing two nights at Benaroya Hall, and I wanted to switch the setlist so that each night– each individual audience– had its own experience of the show. I knew I also had two nights to play a lot of the songs to get takes for the record. But we wanted to make it a unique experience for each show.
I had to consider a lot about how our live show would fit in with the tracklist for a live album, and especially one with a symphony. Do we choose to do harder songs for us, cover songs, standards, the bigger hits– it all was there in the process of putting it together. But ultimately it became about the show itself and less the recording, because if the show was good and the audience fell in love with it, then that would show on the recording. The people buying the album could then appreciate that experience, even though they weren’t in the audience.
I want to head back a bit to the beginning of your career. You got your start playing around Seattle, and then signed to Columbia in 2004, with your debut album being released in 2005. it’s been pretty non-stop since then. What was your thought process in signing to Columbia? Had you already entertained offers from other labels?
We’d certainly been talking about it. We’d played a bunch of artist showcases for labels, but to be honest we weren’t really taking much of that into consideration. We were just figuring out how to make sense of ourselves, and how to come together as a band. But we were playing around for labels just to see what would happen, and we ended up playing for Rick Rubin. And when we did reach out to those other labels, they all passed (laughs). The labels did start to get on board, though, and we’ve always been appreciative of that.
It’s intriguing that you signed with Columbia, because there is such a rich depth of great indie labels in the Pacific Northwest region.
I wish I had had more of a indie-minded or business-minded consideration, but at the time I was 23 and I didn’t even realize that those labels were regional. They were just labels to me. I didn’t have a very strong heritage attached to the indie culture in Seattle. So, when we made our demos we just sent them out willy-nilly and Columbia, upon first signing with them, felt like a good fit for us because they seemed to care about our development as a touring band. They gave us incredible tour support– both monetary and genuine artistic support. They would come to all of our shows, which was amazing. But they were also really hands-off about certain things. They never tried to force me to put on makeup or to dress up for photos. They were really careful to let us develop– me as a person and then us as a band.
We had recorded a record on our own, which Columbia totally got and we released it as Brandi Carlile. They had very little bearing on the scope and direction of the album. They just totally went with it and put it out there. They were supportive of our development as a band, and they were supportive of this little record that we had put out on our own.
Which became quite a big record after it was released on Columbia.
Yeah! Grey’s Anatomy picked up a lot of the songs, and the album ended up doing quite well.
Not only that, but you toured aggressively behind Brandi Carlile, which definitely turned a lot of heads.
You’re right. We toured non-stop for that record, but I felt enlightened, like it was the greatest thing that had happened to me in life. All my life I’d always wanted to tour. But we had a bit of an unusual situation with our label that I know most other bands don’t have. Columbia really put us on the road. When we signed, we were not road weary. We hadn’t really ever gotten into a van and toured for a long time. They really put us out there. They gave us those legs, and we kept thinking and realizing that our record deal is (and was) so fucking indie!
It’s even more impressive, then, that your strength on stage comes from a more recent development than I think most would ever imagine after seeing you perform. So much of the pre-press behind The Story and Give Up The Ghost focused on your desire to capture a live sound in the studio, which in retrospect you’d developed in a relatively short window from touring the first album. It’s great of Columbia for figuring that out and letting you go with it.
Or figuring nothing out and just not paying attention! (laughs)
Do you still have those old demos kicking around? Do you ever pull them out for a listen?
It’s so funny you mention that, because I found our old demo yesterday. I had a get-together at my house and I was digging through a junk drawer looking for a DVD and I came across a little CD-R press case with our demo inside, with a little sticker of our name stuck on it and pictures of us looking like punk rockers with short hair. I popped it in to listen to it and it just sounded totally ridiculous. (laughs)
On that first tour from 2005-2007, you opened for such musical greats as Shawn Colvin, Tori Amos, Ray LaMontagne and Chris Isaak, but it was playing with the Indigo Girls that seems to me to have been a major turning point in your career. If I’m wrong, go ahead and correct me! But if I’m not, I’d love to hear about how that came to be– how that artistic relationship was created.
You’re not wrong at all! It was a total turning point for me in so many ways. First of all, they turned out to be great mentors to me. You know, when they were signed to Epic for all those years they really had an indie-minded career, out on the road fearlessly for over twenty years, and it’s that work that will sustain them for years and years. In so many ways they had influenced so many of our shows before we’d even met them. The first songs I learned on guitar were Indigo Girls songs. The first songs where I really concentrated on those very complex harmonies were Indigo Girls songs. So, when we met and started playing together it was really intense. It’s not like they just jam with you, or you get to open for them. You talk with them, and you talk for a long time. They really take that interest in you. They have a tendency of bringing new artists under their wing whenever they get the opportunity, and so they’re admirable for that.
They also seem to draw a lot of strength off of those new ideas. Within their fan base there’s a group who want to hear the most rare and obscure songs, those who are digging the new music but then there’s the group that want to hear the classics from their back catalogue. So, in having to negotiate that, collaboration can often be a fantastic outlet for creativity.
It’s keen of you to notice that, because that’s exactly what they’re all about. They derive a lot of energy from the new things they play and the people with whom they perform. They’ve also trained their fans over the years to have a palette for new music, because Amy (Ray) has her own indie label where she releases a lot of up-and-coming musicians and bands, and Emily (Saliers) is always looking for new music to bring on the road. Their fans are now used to the fact that they’re always going to be introduced to great new stuff at an Indigo Girls concert. They’re not just going to grab a folky artist from their generation to go on tour– they’re going to seek out a bizarre, great indie and/or queer singer instead. And they’re going to collaborate with them! They’ll get to sing a third harmony part to “Galileo” or “Closer to Fine” and all of a sudden that song’s going to have new life and new energy. They’re really smart that way.
You’re no longer just opening for the Indigo Girls– you’re co-headlining with them. It’s clear they’re incredibly proud of your success, and it’s been great to hear your collaborations with them on your own stuff, like “Cannonball” on The Story, Amy singing backing vocals on “Looking Out” and the duet with Emily on “Let it Go.” Will you do a more formal collaboration in the future, or will it be more shows together?
In fact, I just did a studio collaboration with them last week! We did five songs together. It was really, really fun. We got some of the coolest vocals– I can’t wait for you to hear them.
It’s been quite a few years since Brandi Carlile started turning heads, and now you’re having other major recording artists, like Adele, cover your songs. How does that feel for you?
I get such a kick out of that it’s shameful. My ego just comes in and I just love it! To hear someone else sing my lyrics just makes me so, so happy. I love hearing people cover the songs and all their different takes and personalities.
Your band does a lot of different covers each night that aren’t exactly the most conventional of readings. Your enthusiasm for presenting new takes on older songs would indicate positive feelings about the revolving nature of artistry– of people breathing new life into songs.
I think that our generation of singer-songwriters– not all of them, of course– but it seems they’ve become increasingly snooty about covering other people’s music, (laughs) because we think that our own feelings and our own thoughts are such an integral part of what our art is. It’s so counter-cultural to the way American music was built over generations of folk music, and how our country has cultivated standards and a canon of sorts. It really worries me, because I don’t want our generation of music to be the snobby generation of music. We have standards right now that we should be cultivating and making the great songs of our time. Not only is it a responsibility, but it’s a pleasure to sing those songs, at shows, on records, wherever. Maybe that’s why I get such a kick out of other artists singing my songs, because maybe I think there’s a chance, in some way, that people will then find other songs and explore.
But it all comes down to mortality, doesn’t it? (laugh)
We sing a lot of songs from the ‘60s, ‘70s and ‘80s, from artists who we feel are really valuable. For instance, Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” is an incredible composition, in my mind one of the best songs ever written, and it will probably be one of the standards of our generation, because it moves so many singer-songwriters my age to cover that song. Literally, it’s a different song when each person sings it, but it’s also a household song now. Who knows– in 100 years it could be the National Anthem. (laugh)
Your cover of “Forever Young” on this new record with the Seattle Symphony is especially poignant. The stripped-down piano really benefits the song and draws attention to the melody and lyrics. Is that a piece you find particularly compelling?
You know, we do a few of songs from the ‘80s, like “Forever Young” and “Mad World.” But that was kind of a dark time for singer-songwriters who play acoustic instruments. It’s amazing to go back to that work and find pieces that can be reproduced acoustically that still does justice to the original work. So much of that era was about electronic sounds and synthesizers, which can make it difficult to work with. However, when you do it, it sounds really great, so that’s been a great challenge for us.
It’s an interesting point to make, especially because oftentimes people will discuss the ‘80s as an era of “masking” solid work, where beautiful songs lay beneath synthesizers that could be distracting. But the thing is, that doesn’t make it any worse, it’s just that the music was wearing a different coat at the time, if you will.
Absolutely. It had a very different coat on. For people my age, we’re children of the ‘80s. We’re the Goonies, Labyrinth, Billy Crystal generation. So all that ‘80s music we sort of blocked out as if it was a traumatic experience, but in fact it is the soundtrack of our childhood. When we hear it now in this decade with a different sound, it really moves us because it was there when we were little. It didn’t sound in a way that is totally palatable, but over the past two decades it’s still there. It’s still vibrant. Hearing “Forever Young” acoustic on a piano, you can realize what a beautiful song it was and is, and how much it moves you.
You’re known for doing quite a few covers during your live show, but I found it an intriguing choice to include four covers on this new album, just in terms of licensing and royalties– all those things that often impede artists from really capturing a show.
You know, no one has mentioned that yet, and you’re right. It was a big conversation when we were putting this record together. If half the songs are covers, how are we going to get any publishing off of the album? How are we going to be profitable? But at the end of the day, we had to choose between a traditional album and the show we did, and we chose the show. It’s honestly what happens at a show, so it should happen on our album.
The authenticity of the experience is central to capturing a great live record, and being true to yourself as artists make this album even more compelling. Choosing to put those songs on there also communicate further because they clearly mean something to you, and so when there’s that good intention and genuine fervor, they’re going to mean something to your audience as well.
We were influenced by artists before us. We came from somewhere, from something. So, why pretend like everything we have came directly from ourselves and ignore these songs and these artists that had such a huge hand in shaping who we are as musicians and people? That’s another reason it was so important for us to keep those songs on the record.
Not to jump the gun too quickly since you are about to release this live album, but I’m also interested in when we might be hearing some new studio material from you.
We recorded our latest studio record in the entire month of March. It was an absolutely incredible experience. Thirty-three days, eighteen songs. I cannot wait for you to hear it. I’m completely flipping out over the recordings.
Is eighteen songs more than you usually record during an album session?
It’s quite a bit more. We should have gotten ten songs done in that amount of time! It didn’t feel like we were working that hard. We were so focused and the environment was so incredible– we could have a whole other long conversation about that. We ended up working sixteen, eighteen hour days sometimes recording all these songs. It was such a great feeling.
We recorded out at Bear Creek outside of Seattle.
You’ve worked previously with T-Bone Burnett and Rick Rubin. Are you producing the new record? Are you working with them again? Or did you find someone new for the sessions?
We got to co-produce this record, actually. We worked with this incredible woman– Trina Shoemaker. She’s a Grammy award-winning producer, mixer and engineer. She’s just totally incredible– just nutty! She’s worked a lot with Sheryl Crow, Emmylou Harris’ Wrecking Ball, Whiskey Town, Queens of the Stone Age. She also worked under Daniel Lanois for quite a while.
Did you seek her out, or have you known her for a while?
I sought her out. I’ve known of her for a while. I’ve been a fan and always wanted to work with her. I love the sound she got with Sheryl Crow, and I said to myself that I was going to work with that lady someday. (laugh)
It must be a very exciting time for you. You have a new album recorded already, a live album coming out next week and you’re about to go on tour for quite a while. That brings me to my last question, which is about touring. You do so many shows each year and travel all over. Do you have any rituals that you do to keep you sane while on the road?
It’s all ritual. The whole entire thing is ritual! I wake up, I go out in my pajamas and sit with my band and we talk about our day. We drink a lot of coffee. Everybody goes into soundcheck, I get dressed, I go into the venue. And by the way, I get up so late in the day that there really is not much time between waking up and having to be ready at the venue for the soundcheck and the show. I then go into the venue, put on some Gregory Alan Isakov and I curl my hair for about forty-five minutes.
That’s some real Dolly Parton country diva shit, right there.
Someone’s gotta hold the torch, right?
That’s right!
