Jon Gutwillig has been a busy man. Recently, when he’s not touring the country with his Philadelphia-based trancefusion band, The Disco Biscuits, the affable guitarist has been working on a pair of formidable musical endeavors. In addition to Revolution In Motion, his yet-to-be-debuted space-themed rock opera, Gutwillig, along with author and longtime New Yorker journalist Nicholas Schmidle, Biscuits keyboardist Aron Magner and Musical Director Alex Bechtel, has been spending the balance of his free time adapting his seminal 1998 rock opera, Hot Air Balloon, a classic love story originally composed for the Biscuits, into a live theatrical production entitled The Very Moon: A Steampunk Musical.
Following up his recent surprise announcement of an intimate “developmental workshop” on 5/13 at FringeArts Philadelphia, which will mark the public debut of The Very Moon, Glide Magazine’s Dave Goodwich spoke with Gutwillig about his upcoming project, Disney’s influence on his music, why a song should “smash,” and much more.
What is the Hot Air Balloon? What does that story mean to you?
It’s a love story. I think, at the time, I was just in that puppy-love state of life. There was a girl involved and I used the metaphor of a hot air balloon to write about the way I was feeling with all the different things we were going through. The Hot Air Balloon became a way for me to talk about my life without having to be like, “me, me, me.”
What inspired you to compose the material for Hot Air Balloon? Was it a specific incident or a series of life events?
Good question. There were definitely some musical things that happened. Like, I was writing poems kind of off the guitar and was doing some work on that and just writing these expressive types of poems. So, technically speaking, I was kind of in this place where it would be good to have the stuff to write about. But I was also living thousands of miles away from this girl I was dating and we still wanted to see each other. We still wanted to be in a relationship but we just couldn’t because we were so far away and every time I tried to convince her to move, something would come up. So, it was just a lot of that and I was writing through all of it. That’s kind of what the Hot Air Balloon is about at its core.
I had been writing a lot of that music for years. Especially some of the more elaborate classically-composed type of stuff that’s in there that gives it its own lane, almost. A lot of that stuff had been around for years and I tried to put it here and tried to use it there. That’s what was so great about the Hot Air Balloon. I was ready from the standpoint that I had a lot of music composed. I had a really good idea on how to write good lyrics. Those things all coincided and then I was in this kind of weird relationship where I couldn’t make it work. I couldn’t get this girl to say “yes” to anything that I was trying to do and it kind of seems like that is in the story too, ironically. [laughs]
Where did the idea of adapting the Hot Air Balloon into a theatrical production come from?
People have asked me to do it over the years a number of times. It never really fit into my schedule and it was always something that was like, yeah, that would be cool, but that was it. Though, I’m doing this iteration with Nick Schmidle now. And, Nick is a writer and has a lot of interesting skills he brings to the table that I enjoy. So, when the two of us talked about it, it felt like it was going to be different than just me taking something that I did and redoing it. I felt like, doing it with Nick, it was going to become something new. Because he just has so many ideas. We changed the name. We changed everything about it. We’re adding characters. He just had a different perspective. On every scene and every song he had a totally different perspective and I was like, this is great!, because that meant this was going to be a different thing. We decided to actually do it at that point. It became exciting because of that.
We’re not just taking something old and putting it out on the streets. More than half the music is brand new and I think a lot of the story and themes are brand new as well. There’s a lot in there.
How did you end up collaborating with Nick and what role did he play in this process?
Well, he called me out of the blue and just sort of asked what was going on with that. And, you know, he’s writing books about Richard Branson’s space program and other books that are sort of science-orientated and he wanted to do something that was more fiction and he thought this story was kind of right there. There’s a little science in it, you know? There’s some science in how this guy solves his love problems. But, at the same time, it’s just a pure love story, so he was interested in doing that.
Did you ever envision Hot Air Balloon becoming an actual theatrical production when you originally composed it?
Yes. 100%. Though, I kind of envisioned something that was a little bit closer to an “O.G.” rock opera. But with this, it just feels to me like we’ve been in this creative place and made this something different. I mean, we’re not the same people as when this rock opera was written, so it’s different. It’s coming out different.
Yesterday’s announcement describes the 5/13 event as a “developmental workshop.” What does that entail?
I like to play songs for people and watch them react and see how they feel about it. But, I also like to work in the studio with singers and artists and, you know, I’ll be working with them and they’ll say, “I like singing this line” or “I don’t like singing this line”, and people will be listening and saying, “I like listening to that line” or “I don’t like listening to that line”. And so, what we’re gonna do is take these songs and put them on with a group of pro theater people. We’ll teach them the show and teach them the songs for a couple of days and then we’re going to bring an audience into it on day four and just do the same thing. We’ll do the songs in the order we think it’s gonna be. We’ll tell the story, do a little narrating and try to get people to get a vibe for the story. But, it’s not supposed to be like a polished version of it because we don’t know what that is yet. So, we’re kind of just letting people in on the process of creating it. There’s one date (5/13) when people will buy tickets and come in and it will be focused towards them. It’ll be a show. You know, I do a podcast and stuff so I know how to put a little talking narrative show together. [laughs]
So, we’ll have these other people playing and singing the songs and I get to meld into the crowd almost and watch from the crowd point of view which is something I’ve always wanted to do. You know, I’m never in the crowd for my shows, I’m always on the stage, so this is an opportunity for me to do something I’ve always wanted to do as well, which is, step out of the limelight and let some other people do that work. I get to be part of the crowd and see what gets people excited and then we’re going to continue to write the thing after the developmental workshop with everything that we learned from people’s reactions.
We really want everybody to hear everything because we want to see what people like, you know? The song that I think is the worst might land the hardest so, you never know. I want to do all the songs, explain to people what’s going on and then see if it lands. That’s basically what it is.
In terms of instrumentation, how will the music be presented?
I think it’s basically going to be (musical director) Alex Bechtel on piano and some singers…and then some emcee’ing, if you will. Like, “this is what’s going on…this is what we’re trying to get across…let’s bring some people on stage and they’re gonna sing a song for you.” We’ll do that for all the songs that we have and try to see if it tells the story.
Will Disco Biscuits fans be able to recognize the songs in this new format?
Yeah, for some of them. The ones that we’ve performed live, they will get. Some of the songs that we’re gonna do, they have never heard before. In fact, most of them. The Very Moon has a lot more music in it than the Hot Air Balloon does. It has all of the Hot Air Balloon music in it, plus twice as much more music.
I mean, a rock opera is a thing where it’s ten songs and you put a “Pinball Wizard” in there and it’s great. [laughs] But, a theater thing is different. You really have to take people on the whole journey. You kind of need an opening, middle and closing song. You really need those songs to fit those roles really well and they have to tell the whole story. Whereas, in a rock opera, you can tell a little bit of the story in the music and then just put it on an album, so it’s a little different.
All of the arrangements are gonna be different from the Disco Biscuits’ arrangements but a lot of it will still be the same. Like, you’ll know it’s the same song, but it might be very different as a version. Because, it’s not going to be sung by me and Aron (Magner), it won’t be played by me and Aron, so, you know, that’s a different thing.
You mentioned there will be new music presented as part of The Very Moon. Were any of the original nine songs from Hot Air Balloon removed?
“The Overture”, so far, has been eliminated. This will have a different overture, so we’re not going to use the Hot Air Balloon overture. As of right now, everything else is in it.
In addition to the new material, will The Very Moon introduce any new characters in addition to the original five from Hot Air Balloon?
Yeah. The characters of The Very Moon are actually different than the characters from Hot Air Balloon. Even the ones that have the same name are different characters. So, for example, Morris Mulberry is not the same person from Hot Air Balloon.
We’re not trying to re-write the Hot Air Balloon so we definitely did a couple of new things. Kind of to make a point. Like, this is going to be more fun and more interesting and you don’t need to hold onto anything that’s an old habit.
Are there elements of other rock operas or musicals you’ve found particularly useful to draw on while working on The Very Moon? There’s a ton of inspiring material between productions like Tommy, Jesus Christ Superstar, The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, The Wall etc.
Hmm. Let me think. None of those, ironically. Those are all more like rock operas. When I did the Hot Air Balloon I was probably influenced by those but it was so long ago that I don’t know if I could really detail what those influences are at this point. There was a lot of Bob Dylan influence with Hot Air Balloon. He was probably the biggest influence, which is why all the songs are lyrical like that.
But, for this, I honestly feel like something like Moana, on the Disney Channel, is maybe a big influence for something like this. You know, my kid is three years old, so I’ve spent the last three years of the pandemic hanging out with a two/three year old, right? So, I feel like Disney is maybe the biggest influence right now. I mean, I’m not trying to make something that they would even care about, but I do watch a lot of their content, so I feel like it’s going to be in there somewhere. [laughs] I don’t know. The kid watches all the stuff that Disney puts out so I end up watching it because he’s watching it and then I end up making this theater thing two years into it and I’m like, “I wonder why”, you know? [laughs]
During the pandemic, I saw every piece of theater that was on the internet that was new and modern and watchable and cool. So, I feel like it’s a lot of that. We’re not trying to make The Very Moon for kids at all. But, I think there’s more influence coming from streaming networks today than there is from actual theater or something like rock operas.
Are you a fan of live theater and musicals?
Yeah, I definitely enjoy them a lot but I definitely have a weird relationship with them because, to me, they’re jazz standards. You know, when I look at a lot of theater stuff, those are jazz standards to me.
I grew up in New Jersey and we would go into New York and we went to 42nd Street and saw plays a couple of times as a kid. I think my school took me once or twice and my parents took me once or twice so I definitely have seen a bunch of stuff over the years.
I was in New York when Book of Mormon was hot and we walked into the show with no ticket. No tickets at all and we just convinced them to seat us. It was one of the most gangster things I ever did in my life! [laughs] I mean, me and my girl were eating dinner and we wanted to go so we just swung by and we talked our way in. We had great seats. It was amazing and it just felt good to be able to go to something without a ticket and still be able to see it! [laughs] I feel like the theater is just kind of cool. Like, everything about it is just kind of cool.
What’s next for The Very Moon after the Philly event? Broadway?
You know, I don’t have any real plans for what to do with it beyond just making it. My goal is to make something that I’m in the crowd for that’s really fun to be in the crowd for. That’s the goal for me. I think Nick has different goals, but they align with mine. Aron has some different goals too but they align with mine as well.
We have a nice little team. Alex Bechtel is really really strong and he’s been really helpful in just coming aboard and being a guy who’s done it before and really knows the ins and outs of the system. That’s the team we put together to deliver this because we feel like it’s going to make a really nice product and then I think once we know what that product is, we’ll know where it lives.
In addition to The Very Moon, you’re also working on a new space-themed rock opera, Revolution In Motion. What’s it been like working on these two pieces at once? Have you found that they’ve rubbed off one another?
They’ve definitely rubbed off on each other a bunch. Although, the space opera is very much a Disco Biscuits album, you know? The songs are designed to be stadium-smash techno songs. Every single one is. So, we’re not that worried about whether or not we get the point across and whether or not the mood of the song is exactly what would be going on in a visual thing. We just want the song to smash, you know? That’s the goal.
Honestly though, for The Very Moon, that is also the goal. Like, I want all these songs to smash, but I’m not worried about making them techno songs. I’m kind of worried about making them something that the theater people in our organization who are performing them feel really good about. And for the crowd to feel good about.
So, I think they go back and forth with each other but the teams are definitely a little bit different. There’s definitely no confusing about which one you’re working on when you’re working on them. So, it feels different for me. And I jump back and forth from project to project all the time so I’m sure there’s gotta be some crossover influence from one to the other but I don’t necessarily feel like it’s a huge thing.
Do you envision any of the new material developed for The Very Moon eventually finding its way into the Disco Biscuits’ live repertoire?
It’s on a per-song basis. Like, there’s one song that’s just going to be an incredible Disco Biscuits song. It wasn’t supposed to be. We weren’t trying for that. Songwriting is this weird thing where you start with something that makes you excited to start and then you finish with something that makes you excited to finish. And, those are two different things and they’re connected because they’re on the same journey, but it’s hard to tell which one is which. You know, when you’re at the start, it’s hard to know what the finish is gonna be. And if I played you the finished product, you would probably have no chance to tell me how it started. It’s almost impossible to go backwards.
So, it is what it is, you know? If The Very Moon songs end up on stage with the Biscuits, it’s because when the Biscuits play them, they smash. That is what it’s gonna be. That’s the only criteria.
Do you still enjoy playing the Hot Air Balloon material with the Biscuits as much today as when you first composed them?
I mean, when I first wrote them, I couldn’t believe how good they ended up. I just mean that for me. Like, I don’t know if they’re good for…whatever. I know they’re not, like, Micheal Jackson-good but, for me, they were a whole level better than the work I was doing before I wrote the Hot Air Balloon stuff. Viewing my own production, I was like, wow, I can actually do this on some level, you know? But on the previous set of songs I was like, I don’t know. They’re alright. It was more of a hobby. The Hot Air Balloon songs were the ones where I was like, this is a job, not a hobby. These songs are on another level. And then I realized, after a while, that that is the single and only goal in the music business. Getting to “these songs are on another level” as quickly as possible.
And so, that’s there for both the space opera and The Very Moon. Like, I know it’s a theater-play and the theater is not quite a Disco Biscuits show [laughs] as far as, you know, euphoria or whatever the criteria is but I still think the music has got to be great. It’s got to smash for this thing. It’s got to be melodic. It’s got to be great in a slightly different way. So, in that sense, it’s the same vibe.
The Biscuits have performed the entire Hot Air Balloon suite only nine times, with the most recent outing occurring on 12/31/18 to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of its debut performance. Will there be more performances of the complete opera in the future?
Yeah, probably. We’re just on such a long trajectory with that group of guys. I’ve done a million things in my life but that’s been there forever. Since college, you know? Sometimes I leave that, sometimes I go back to that but I’ve got to imagine that, in ten years, we’ll be doing something with the Disco Biscuits on some level.
I mean, we just crushed the Mission Ballroom, which is basically an arena in Denver, for two nights last weekend with the Disco Biscuits. [laughs] The show sold really well and it just felt like a massive arena show from my point of view. So, I just have to imagine that ten years from now we’re going to do another Hot Air Balloon. We’ll probably do a bunch of space operas in the next few years because it’s fresh. And then maybe we’ll do The Very Moon if it works onstage as a Biscuits show. But only if that’s the case.
Was there ever a plan to make a studio recording of Hot Air Balloon with the Biscuits?
You know, I don’t know why we never did it! We didn’t have a great…record companies don’t like us. [laughs] I don’t know why. I mean, I guess it’s too jam band? The record labels just never wanted to make it. We were very much in the Napster niche. The record companies hadn’t figured out streaming yet and they were all broke and no one wanted to take a chance on a nine-song rock opera out of Philly so we just never made it.
The first five years of our rock band were the Napster years so there wasn’t like a business when we started. So, a lot of the things about our band that are different from other bands are based around that. If you were older than us, you have a record deal. You’ve got record sales, marketing, advances, studios. And, if you’re after us, you could stream and you had YouTube and stuff like that. You could do it all from a laptop. So, you have guys like Skrillex who came after us and we were sort of in that middle period.
I don’t know why we never made the Hot Air Balloon. We couldn’t find any takers. We might make it at some point in time, you know if there was a studio that wanted to make it really financially easy to do. We could probably pump it out in a month or two once we’re done with this one album.
But you know me. I’m going to want to do new stuff. If I could go in and do it in a week, I would, but I don’t know about spending two months on that project.
One Response
This sounds awesome. Already sold out!