Hope Is The Theme For Ben Barnes’ “Rise Up” And His ‘Songs For You’ EP (INTERVIEW)

Ben Barnes has spent over twenty years acting in very nuanced roles that often demand that he suggest far more story is involved with his characters than are actually laid out onscreen, including his current run on Shadow and Bone. He built that approach to acting upon a very dedicated earlier life in music, bringing out the storytelling possibilities in performance and assuming that music would be his future path before fate took a very different turn. Now, after a number of years considering recording and releasing his own music, and after fans encouraged his piano and vocal performances from home during the pandemic, Barnes has released his first EP, Songs For You. 

Some powerhouse videos have also arrived alongside some of his key singles, including “11:11”, featuring his Westworld colleague Evan Rachel Wood, and “Rise Up”, featuring his Punisher colleague Floriana Lima. We spoke with Ben Barnes about taking the plunge back into music, the emotional focus of the songs on the EP, and particularly about the origin and composition of the song “Rise Up” to accompany this debut of the lyric video for that single. 

Hannah Means-Shannon: I know that the album seems to have gotten its start in you playing piano from home for fans. How much impact did that have on your musical intentions?

Ben Barnes: Yes, I think that was a huge part of the litmus test for how this might be received in the world. Music has been such a massive part of my life for my whole life, but particularly in high school, most of what I did was play music in bands and play drums in concert bands and Jazz orchestras. I did Sinatra tribute concerts and Stevie Wonder Soul nights. It took up all of my free time. I thought my life would mainly consist of musical endeavors. But I think it took me a very long time to feel comfortable with the idea of sharing songs that I had written. 

It’s also taken time to find my own sound and my own voice, since for twenty years, I’ve been an actor playing other people, including other musicians, particularly in films like Killing Bono. Some of them have been silly parodies of ridiculous rockstars of the 80s, and some have been more profound, like in the Folk music of Jackie & Ryan. But I was always doing an impression and an interpretation of someone else. I just reached a bit of a breaking point during the pandemic, I think, where I needed to share something just from me. But I tested the waters with my very loyal following by starting gently, then building up to doing more and more music at my piano. I did various covers of things, and it went from “Oh, you’ve got a lovely voice.”, to “Where’s the damn album??” That was very encouraging. 

Social media can be extremely hazardous and poisonous a lot of the time to a lot of people,  but this was something that came out of it. I even started finding other musicians and collaborating through the pandemic. So it became a case of, “If not now, when?” When you’ve been written for and edited for twenty years as an actor, it felt important for me to do something pure and very authentically and intimately me. I think I was afraid of that same thing twenty years ago, though, of what the reaction be if I did something completely mine. But in the end, it’s about releasing something that is completely mine and then people make it theirs, immediately. They make it about their lives and loves. 

It’s the best thing in the world to have full creative control over something, but if you’ve never done that before, I can imagine that is terrifying. It’s just a void at first. 

The blank page is certainly scary, but not if it’s just for you. This is why I’ve always kept little journals and notes. I even love words, and when someone uses a word that’s very appropriate in a conversation. I get a little jolt of pleasure out of that, as geeky as that may be. 

There’s a lot of emotion in these songs, whether they are more overtly serious, or more playful. “Rise Up”, for me, was one I particularly wanted to talk with you about. That was the one that really punched me in the face, emotionally speaking.

I can only apologize! I’m not a violent man, usually.

I think it’s the fact that the idea of the sun rising and setting is kind of the oldest mythology in the world. All of our stories seem to go back to that.

Yes it is. 

It’s such a strong element, but you strip it back to a modern feeling. You don’t seem to shy away from an almost religious feeling to it, though.

I prefer to think about it more like the word “sacred”. That’s the word I use to myself about it. But you’re right. This started life as a five or six-line poem, and when I only had a verse and a chorus, I thought, “This is a little hymn.” Therefore, I went for it a little bit with the gospel-like nature of the chords. Initially, I thought it might just be voice and piano, and sacred in that way, because that song is precious to me. It’s the first one I finished, really, for the EP. Then the musicians on the album really responded to it. 

My drummer, who lives in Ireland, worked on three of the five songs on the EP. He was like [Ben proceeds to do a brilliant Irish accent], “Man, you’ve got to let me put some drums on “Rise Up”. They’ve got to come crashing in, like The Beatles. It’ll feel anthemic.” So I said, “Go for it!” Then, the big lush strings that Oliver Krauss did, were added and are honestly, probably my favorite moment of this entire process. 

It’s such an incredible build-up. 

He said, “These strings wrote themselves immediately.”, which was lovely to hear. The musicians just helped it breathe and become what it is. Maybe people don’t get emotional about things they have created, but once other people have contributed to it, they do, and that’s what happened here for me. It had a life again. The same thing happened with the video, because it was pitched to me by my friend Georgia King, in terms of the building of the televisions. I wanted everything on these videos to feel entirely honest, and though the string arrangements were not my idea, nor was the idea for the video. 

But with the string arrangements, I was very involved all the way through, and we did the same with the video. I would explain how moments in the song related to moments in my past, and suggest we could relate certain movements to others so that every stitch of the way could be something truthful. I think with twenty years of playing characters, you realize that people will only respond to things if they are totally honest. That’s difficult to do in fantasy and things like that, but I knew that it shouldn’t be difficult with something like this song, because it is and was real. So we worked on it very lovingly. I didn’t want it to be acting. 

It could have been a prettier, lighter videos if you hadn’t been so committed to that, but I think it comes off as very psychological and meaningful as a consequence.

We had prettier, lighter ideas for it, but this one felt the most honest. We also shot a lot of it with lip-synching but it didn’t work. So Georgia worked very hard to edit it to capture these little moments. It’s very much a video that captures something rather than shoots something, but I do like to think of it as a sister video to “11:11”. It’s almost a sequel because “11:11” is very buoyant and happy, but has this pathos to the ending. But then sometime later, you find this man on the floor. It’s on purpose that my beard and hair are longer. He stitches together memories and builds this thing we see because the song is about loving support, and being there for someone. It’s about helping to build someone back up. Then it has a more positive ending out of strife. 

It does feel like there’s a dual role in the song “Rise Up”. There’s “have some faith in me” but also there’s talking to another person. It’s a very subtle process going on.

The phrase “Rise Up” is supposed to come from me, but it’s just as useful for talking to oneself. It’s also this idea that you have to be strong in order to be supportive and strong for others. It’s almost like you have to remember that the sun will also rise. Then, when it does, you can use that day in the sun to remind other people that not only will the sun rise, but they can be that sun. It’s certainly the most abstract of the songs in that way. 

It almost doesn’t matter what it means, though, to me. I don’t know the details of John Lennon and Paul McCartney’s memories when they wrote most of their songs. All I know is how they made me feel about moments in my life. If it’s readable in different ways, people can relate to it. I know this because that’s how I’ve listened to music for forty years.

That’s very true. Lyric videos are different kinds of creatures and something that really reaches me about this one is the transformation of color. 

I said what I’d like the lyric video to feel like, and I said that I would love to have the revolving colors of the sunset and the sunrise. Because I feel like each one is different. The inevitable thing is that there will be another day tomorrow, but what’s not inevitable is what that day will feel like. We know the sun will rise and we know the sun will set, but we don’t know how it will be. Sometimes you get these blistering, soulful, purple sunrises. Sometimes they are deep, and red, and passionate. Sometimes they are icy and bland. There are as many sunsets as there are emotions, too, and that’s how I wanted the revolving colors to be.

Yes, and our own lives interpret what we see.

Exactly, yes. Two people could be looking at the sunset and experience very different things. I’ve had that exact experience where I’m watching maybe a firework display with someone. If you’re feeling joyful, it can be such a celebration, but if you’re not feeling joyful, it can almost have the opposite effect.

At what point did you think, “I have enough songs here. This is going to be a collection.”? Was there a selection process?

There were others that were unfinished that I was thinking of, but they didn’t necessarily go with the theme. The hope found in “Rise Up” is also reflected in all of the songs in some ways. Immediately, I think of, “Not the End”, with that lyric, “If it’s not okay, it’s not the end.” One of the other songs talks about holding on for another day. All of the songs have their version of that, and that’s how I knew it was these five. I nearly made it four because one of the songs wasn’t coming together, but then one of the producers suggested raising the tempo and it became a lot punchier, then I knew that it was part of the same family of songs.

I’m so glad that you mentioned “Not the End” and “Ordinary Day” because those are the other two that I could really see links between and to “Rise Up”. Given the past year and a half that people have gone through, these songs that acknowledge internal experiences but also point towards hope and progress are really impactful. 

Thank you, that makes me feel wonderful. 

Photo by Jay Gilbert