Waylon Payne has been singing on stage since he was three years old with his mother, country singer, Sammi Smith. Smith had the mega-crossover hit song “Help Me Make It Through the Night” and taught Payne everything about singing and laid the foundation for his songwriting chops.
Payne’s father was Jody Payne, guitarist and harmony singer in Willie Nelson’s Family Band for 35 years, so he has been instilled with the blood of a rock & country lifer. Payne also is the owner of a successful acting career separate from his music. His performance as Jerry Lee Lewis was the most notable role in the Academy Award-winning movie Walk the Line and he starred as Hank Garland in the movie Crazy.
Payne released his first album of self-penned songs, The Drifter, in 2004 and is dropping his second record, Blue Eyes, The Harlot, The Queer, The Pusher & Me on September 11th. He has been writing soul-searching, hit songs over the years for other artists that include Lee Ann Womack, Ashley Monroe, Miranda Lambert, Aaron Lewis, and many more.
He writes songs that he has lived and his insightful lyrics depict life lived on the rough edge with his share of heartache. With three powerful songs recently released on June 12th, three additional songs will be released on a monthly basis until the official album release.
Glide was able to catch up with Payne for a candid discussion on his new music, his inspiration, and his struggles over the years. This is what we learned…
You’ve been in show business for over 20 years. Your last album was released 16 years ago. You’ve been working in Nashville as a songwriter for many artists for several years. Are all the songs on the new album written by you?
Yes, most of them have been written by me. There are a few co-writes though. I have one that I wrote with Lee Ann Womack and Adam Wright which was also a Grammy-nominated song called “All the Trouble.” There is a song on there called “Precious Thing” that I wrote with my friend, Clint Lagerberg. I wrote “Back From the Grave” with Clint Lagerberg and Brandy Clark. Another song, “Born to Lose,” I wrote with my friend Thomas Yankton. There are three or four co-written songs and the rest are mine.
Can we talk about “Sins of the Father” since that is the first single?
On July 24, 2008, I arrived in Austin to do a series of shows with my friend Cory Morrow. I had gotten deep into a methamphetamine problem. It had progressed to me injecting the drug. I had gone through the death of my mom and the breakup of a relationship that I thought was important. I was in a very bad way. I was very disheartened by the way I hadn’t taken care of my mom before she died. When I arrived in Austin in July, one of the first people I met was my friend, Edward Johnson. Johnson has become one of the biggest and firmest rocks in my life that I have allowed. I’ve never really let many people get extremely close to me. I keep myself at arms’ length most of the time unless you’re a hot guy and I like you (laughing).
That was kind of what happened. Johnson was a really handsome guy and a quality person. In a way I fell in love with him. I found someone who was going to save my life. I was going to ride off in the sunset and live happily ever after. Edward was very quick to set the record straight with compassion and said, ‘That’s not what our life is going to be. If you will trust me I think I might be able to help you to make some changes in your life.’ “Sins of the Father” came after his son, Lake, was born. I worked on getting sober.
My father was dying around the same time. Once I realized I was on a different path and making changes, I started writing these songs. My daddy and I didn’t have a very good relationship. We met late in my life. Our relationship was based mostly on music and drugs. I had gone through some trauma in my childhood. My father didn’t know how to deal with all of that. It was like we were rock and roll buddies instead of father and son. He also had some unresolved issues with my mom. We loved each other to death, but it was not your normal father and son relationship. I can count on one hand how many times we embraced. I decided I was going to change my life. I realized that my relationship with Lake, Edward’s son, was much like a father and son. He looked up to me like he looked up to his dad. Something clicked and I made some serious changes. “Sins of the Father” is about that.
Your songs always have a deeper significance than what appears on the surface. Do you have a favorite song on the album?
Picking your favorite song is like choosing your favorite child. They all have special significance. It was an incredible recording experience.
My producer, Frank Liddell and his buddy Eric Masse, are the producers on this project. Frank has been a loyal friend, boss, and fan of the music for a long time. I had a version of this record that I recorded in Austin and I took it back to Nashville. Liddell felt it was really great, but It needed to be more sonically appealing. He set up the recording of this album at the old Monument Studios (now called Southern Ground) where my momma stood and sang most of her songs even when she was pregnant with me. I spent a lot of time there as a child where she recorded many of her records. As I recorded there, it was something very spiritual for me. It was right!
All the music on the new album was recorded live from the floor. There are no edits or pieces put together. What you hear is what actually happened, minus some guitar overdubs There were only four or five of us. We couldn’t play all the guitars that they wanted all at once. The guitar solos, some of the strings, and my harmonies are about the only parts we didn’t do right then and there. Those were added pretty much after.
When the record was put together, we picked out the songs we wanted strings on. A lady by the name of Kristin Wilkinson put these ‘Bobbie Gentry-esk’ string arrangements on top of these songs. She started with the song called “Shiver.” I had written the song back in 2003. It’s one of my favorite songs and a special moment. I felt if we were going to use strings on the final product, I wanted it to have a Delta Bobbie Gentry inspired feel and Wilkinson knew exactly what was going on and she nailed “Shiver” exactly. It was amazing how she knew what I imagined. It’s a special song and the entire album is amazing. Who would ever think they would get live strings for their album? It makes me happy!
You have referenced your mom and dad. Can you tell us more about them and the impact they’ve had on your life?
My mother is the late, great chanteuse, Sammi Smith. You know her well. My mom is an enigma these days. She’s always around. I feel like she’s more with me now than she was when she was alive. She taught me everything I know. She and I as a family unit had to go through some awful situations. We didn’t talk for a number of years because of family strife. She rallied though. The particulars are there was some sexual abuse in my family in my home and it happened in the hands of my mom’s brother. It tore the family apart. It’s been hard to acknowledge and deal with because it was a terrible situation.
Can you talk about your earliest memories of being on stage with your mama?
I would stand on a stool or stand by her side. Luckily, I have some videos that have come into my life that are pretty amazing. My memories of my mother have always been very present in my mind. It’s hard to talk about mama. She was my hero and the coolest thing I’ve ever seen. She would pick me up from my aunt and uncle’s house and I would go on the road with her. I was always with her in the summertime and sometimes during the school year. It was off and on.
The music business is kind of a strange animal. We work for years and years for things. We sacrifice and we make changes and when it hits after working on something for 20 years we don’t really feel like it’s time to stop and take a vacation. I was born at the pinnacle of the success of mama’s experience with “Help Me Make It Through the Night.” It was a huge hit when I was born and for many years after I was born. That’s how she provided for herself and those around her. She could not stop. She had to keep going. She had this thing inside her that only musicians can understand. She needed to do her stuff and she couldn’t put her kids in peril. She found a place for me. I always wanted to be with my mama. It just didn’t work out that much. I just loved her.
I was on stage with her a lot. She couldn’t keep me off the stage. “She’s in Love with a Rodeo Man” was my favorite song that she sang. I would sing with all my might when that played. I learned everything I know from my mama and Bobbie Gentry, and Willie and Kris. I remember learning how to phrase from my mama. She had such a unique way of singing and delivering a story. The stuff she wrote was so deeply personal, very avante garde for the time. “Saunders Ferry Lane” was such an “Ode to Billy Joe” like song. Mama would fall in love and write some of the best love songs ever written. “Sunshine” was such a heartbreaking song. It was about the divorce of my parents. “Kentucky” was about when they fell in love. You can hear it and feel it. The songs that she wrote and sang herself taught me how to write songs. She put great music in my life. She loved good music. Willie Nelson was one of her favorite people in the world. Willie and Kris were some of the most prolific writers around. She listened to all genre of music and that allowed her to grow as an artist. I honor her every night that I perform. That is not a hard thing to do. She was my biggest fan regarding my writing. In the end, I hope she realized that I got it all from her.
Besides your mom, who is your biggest musical influence?
Without a doubt, Bobbie Gentry. I have been obsessed with Bobbie Gentry since I was a baby. I grew up getting to know my mom through those little 45 rpm records. I had a song called “Courtyard” by Bobbie Gentry on my playlist incessantly. “Courtyard” is the flipside of a couple of singles that were big hits. When I was a baby child I knew I didn’t have a father. I wanted a father really bad. No one could explain to me why I didn’t have one. The song “Courtyard” had a lyric (singing)“he said he’d build me a courtyard with a lacey iron gate,” it’s about a person waiting for her lost love to return to her. He provided a place for her to wait for him. For some reason, whenever I played that song, even though Bobbie was singing it, it felt like it was a message from my father. I know that sounds strange, but it has always been that way for me. I imagined being in the courtyard and my father would come find me, take care of me and I would have a family. She’s just been here in my mind and in my life forever. I perform her songs on stage all the time because her writing is really top-drawer. I compare it to my music because there are little Easter eggs or clues all through her music about different things and you never really know what things are about. If you listen close enough they reveal themselves in ways you don’t expect. This past three years I have allowed myself to tap into Ms. Bobbie’s music more. I would concentrate on the way she would present things. She is my muse. And she was not afraid to absolutely say goodbye (to show business)and not be seen in public again except for one photo that was posted three years ago of what she looks like now. I feel like I have a spiritual connection to her.
Dead or alive, who would you like to meet? I think I already know the answer already.
Bobbie Gentry. (Laughing) I’ve imagined it so many times. It would be great to be able to sit and talk. If nothing more to say thank you for helping me be creative.
Dead or alive who would you like to see perform?
I would love to see Etta James perform one more time. You and I have a mutual love for Etta and you are responsible for me seeing her for the first time live. We went to the Long Beach Blues Festival. It was when I first got to California. That day she announced that she had just met a doctor who helped her to get healthy. We also saw her at the House of Blues in Las Vegas. I got to see her some five or ten years later as she walked on stage for the first time in 20 years. She always reminded me of mom. I saw a Time-Life video in the nineties where they showed a snippet of Etta singing “Something’s Got a Hold on Me” and I thought she and mama could have been twins. They just reminded me of each other. It was silk.
What music are you listening to in your car right now?
One of my very favorite artists is Rufus Wainwright. He is releasing a new album in July called Unfollow the Rules. It’s so pretty. I love his delivery and everything about him. He did that killer version of “Across the Universe” in the Tom Cruise movie Vanilla Sky and Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah.” His new album is amazing.
I’ve also been listening to my friend Miranda Lambert’s new album Wildcard, that is out of this world. She has just gotten married and let herself settle in to the beauty of being a wife. It’s so good to see her fly. The album is really great. Brandy Clark has a new album, Your Life is a Record, that is really moving. Shelby Lynne has a new self-titled album that is really spectacular. I never get tired of Bobbie Gentry’s Patchwork album.
What is the best advice you have ever gotten?
Don’t ever, ever give up. My mama has always ingrained in my mind to be yourself, be an original. She pushed me, “I’ve shown you how to sing, now go do it.” A couple of years ago, when things did not look like they were going to work out, I emailed my friend, Edward Johnson. I was frustrated and ready to quit this business. It didn’t seem like anything was going to happen. He sent a quick email back that said, ‘Don’t ever, ever give up because you are great and you are going to be something.’
Another piece of advice that my mother gave me when I was eight years old, ‘Know how to spell the word patience, p-a-t-i-e-n-c-e.’ The past five years of my life has been a Harvard degree in patience. It’s okay. I’m already in this business. This goes back to advice given to me by Billy Joe Shaver once gave me, ‘We’re already in this business. We are here and we’ve made a statement. We’re not in a hurry and don’t need to be in a hurry to produce art that isn’t right. It’s okay to take your time. Hon your craft and be as honest as you can.’
Me; You been a writer in Nashville for quite a while. Who are some of the performers you have written songs?
The first person to cut a song of mine is Keith Gattis, “The Bottom.” He also produced my first album, The Drifter. Pat Green and I wrote a couple of songs that went on his album, Wave On Wave. Lee Ann Womack performed the first really big song with “Solitary Thinking” and “Her.” Womack’s most recent album The Lonely has four or five of my songs on it. The songs I wrote, “All the Trouble” and “Solitary Thinkin,” have Grammy nominations. Ashley Monroe has cut a bunch of my songs that we wrote together. Miranda Lambert has cut a couple of songs. Aaron Lewis just cut “The Bottom.”
If you weren’t a musician, what would you be?
I think I’d be a baker. I have had a lot of jobs.
What’s the worse job you’ve ever had?
When I was a hooker. That’s not something I’m really proud of but it was a part of my life that’s there. I was disowned from my family when I was 18 for being gay. There were quite a few years there that I used my body to get out of trouble or find a place to sleep or to eat. I stopped all of that when I moved to California. It was a brief period of my life that kind of hangs around.
If you were interviewing yourself, what would you ask?
Are you finally happy? My answer would be ‘Hell, yeah! ’It’s an amazing thing when you go to bed at night and nothing is happening. You wake up the next day and your baby is born. That’s how it feels having my new record release. And in this modern day, the whole world gets to hear it. Like having a baby, there were congratulations all around. It feels good and it was worth the wait.
