Donna Jean Godchaux MacKay Shares Stories Of Elvis, Jerry, Keith, Pigpen & More

Few artists have had the kind of impact on rock and roll that Donna Jean Godchaux Mackay has amassed in the past fifty years. While most fans fondly remember her as the graceful vocalist (and lone female member) of The Grateful Dead from 1971-1979, Donna cut her teeth as a teenager in the Muscle Shoals, AL music scene, recording backup vocals with the likes of Elvis and other legendary musicians. 

Since parting ways with the Dead, Donna returned to live music in 1997, and has been going strong ever since. Between touring & recording with The Zen Tricksters or her own Donna Jean Godchaux Band, making music with her husband, David MacKay, creating graphic design work on her computer or simply spending time with her two sons, Zion & Kinsman, Donna has been staying as busy & creative as ever.  This includes a revamping of the song “Shelter” from her 2007 album she recorded as Donna Jean and the Tricksters/

“In the past year, the word “Shelter” has only come to be more powerful in all our lives, and we decided it was time to go to work.  David MacKay and I went into The NuttHouse Recording Studio in the Muscle Shoals area of Alabama.  We took the hard drive of the song and gave it a re-vamp with some powerful, soulful background vocals.  We also beefed up the rhythm section with a decidedly tribal edge,” says Donna about the song

Join us as Glide had a chance to speak with Mrs. Godchaux-MacKay for an in-depth conversation while she was in Northwest Alabama “dodging” tornadoes. This revealing conversation runs the gamut from icons Elvis Presley and, Jerry Garcia to stories of her talented ex-husband Keith Godchaux, Pigpen along with the unique challenge of being the only female performer in the Grateful Dead world.

I certainly hope you guys stay safe today. So, tornadoes aside, how have you been holding up in the past year or so?

Well, like everybody else, you have to say: “what are the choices?” You know, you just have to look onward and upward and do your best to stay afloat in the midst of a horrendous situation. And everybody knows that it’s not only America that is going through tremendous changes, but also all over the world. I mean, it’s not just limited to America. The whole world is just weirding out (laughs).

Has any of the chaos & craziness from the past year brought out any sort of creative projects or intentions that you might not have had otherwise?

Well, it certainly drives you to want to find something creative to do. And, I always say about myself, that if I’m not being creative, I’m dangerous (laughs).  So, I find something. I’m currently working on the computer doing graphic design with what I would call greeting cards, you know, just designing things, as well as this whole project with the song “Shelter” that also took a while. And that satisfied my music itch. So, we have kept busy and, you know, always looking for something to engage the body and the brain. 

That’s pretty much all you can do in this kind of situation. 

 Exactly

And that segues nicely into my next topic, which is the remake of the track “Shelter” that you originally recorded with the Zen Tricksters in 2007. I’ll be honest, as a fan of your work with the Tricksters, I was a little hesitant when I heard it was being re-done because I really did enjoy the original track and how it sounded. But I have to admit I was blown away by the reworked version. The addition of the extra percussion and background vocals really helps encapsulate that sort of swampy/back-porch groove, which you once mentioned was a staple of the “Muscle Shoals sound”.

Absolutely. It’s like, the snare is almost late. Almost. And that’s what I call the “back porch”. But I’ll give you a little history on how this came about. When we did record it initially, the track was really good, like you said. Jeff Mattson and I wrote the song together. He wrote the chord structure, and I wrote the melody and the lyrics. And we were both left a little bit “meh” because we wanted the vocals, especially on the choruses, to be really strong and powerful, and we just could not accomplish that. In addition, the more I listened to it, the more I wanted that tribal kind of throbbing, like you said, the Muscle Shoals sound on the rhythm section. Also, the song is very timely. It’s even more pertinent today than it even was when I wrote it. So, all those things put together. Plus, Jeff and I had wanted to do this for years and years and years and talked about it. And then finally, you know, COVID happened, global warming, I mean, you name it, everything is on the line right now. And, because of that, I said, “Well, the time is now. The time is now and I’m going to do it.”

So, my husband (David MacKay) redid the bass. Jimmy Nutt, whose studio – “Nutthouse” – here in Muscle Shoals, where we recorded it, played drums. So, we kept some of the percussion and everything, but the rhythm section is where we totally took it in another direction.  And, I just think it’s stronger. It’s more powerful. Anyway, we were very happy with it. When I sent it to Jeff, he said they cried, you know, just because it was finally sounding like we had originally heard it.  And the background vocals: There are three girls here who do most of the background work in the studios here in Muscle Shoals. So, I engaged those three girls to come in to do the background vocals. I just wanted it to be thicker and stronger and almost gospely. And, I love it. 

You guys absolutely achieved that goal. I’m sure you’ve seen this, but Jeff posted a video recently talking about his reaction to you finally redoing this and you could tell just from watching that he was genuinely excited that this finally got done.

 Oh, we were both thrilled at how it came to light.

One aspect of the song that really stands out to me are the lyrics. Not only are they, like you said, still remarkably timely & relevant given the current state of the world, but also incredibly optimistic in the sense that, despite all the darkness and chaos the narrator has seen, he or she ultimately manages to see through all of that to the good that still exists, even if you have to dig a little more to find it. 

Exactly. And, there is shelter for the soul. And so, at the end of every chorus it says, after describing what we’re facing, it says “shelter for the soul.” You know, we can either put our heads in the sand or face the music and get through this and be stronger for it. That’s the hope. That’s what I call onward and upward.

Do you have any plans going forward to tour again, either with the Tricksters or the Donna Jean Godchaux Band? Or, is it still too soon, given what’s going on?

Well, I get asked that a lot. And it is too soon. I feel like as musicians and, I guess, any occupation, they’re waiting to see how the next move is going to present itself and how to negotiate that in a new normal. So, we’ll see about that. I have no desire to really go out and tour, tour, tour… but I’m not done singing and I’m not done making music. We’ll see what happens. 

One final Tricksters-related question: Who was Kettle Joe? I love that name and have always wondered what the inspiration was behind that. (note: in 2006, when Donna first joined the group, they toured under the name Kettle Joe’s Psychedelic Swamp Revue before changing it to Donna Jean and the Tricksters)

Well, you know what, you’re the first person that has ever asked me about that (laughs).  Amazingly enough, because to me, it’s just so obvious that it’s Garcia. And, it pretty much describes the first two or three times of when I first met him and was getting into the band, and if you listen to it again, with that knowledge, you’ll understand. It’s almost literal.

This weekend is, as I’m sure you know, Palm Sunday, which also happens to be a uniquely beautiful song that you recorded for Jerry’s album Cats Under the Stars. Did you have any recollections of that specific session?

Oh, I can still feel what was going on when we did the vocals on that. Jerry and I were on omnidirectional mics, so he was on one side of the mic, and I was on the other side. And it was three o’clock in the morning. And we were just in a space. That’s the only way I know to describe it (laughs). We were just in this other world and other space. And it came off like we were in another dimension, but I love that song and we just had so much, not only fun, but deepness about recording that song. We loved it.

Yeah, that’s a beautiful, beautiful song. And the album itself is, you know, obviously some of his best solo work. 

I love that whole album and it’s Jerry’s favorite album. But Jeff and I, like, this morning, I got a text from Jeff: “It looks like Palm Sunday again.” We do that every single year.

Going back to the beginning of your career, obviously, most fans know you from your time in the Grateful Dead, but I think some of the more casual fans may not be aware of some of the session work you did, especially as a member of (female vocal group) Southern Comfort. Back in the mid to late 60s, in Muscle Shoals, you appeared on multiple chart-topping hits including Percy Sledge’s “When a Man Loves a Woman”, Elvis‘ “Suspicious Minds”, Boz Scaggs, Neil Diamond, the list goes on. I read a story where you mentioned how Elvis would individually critique each singer during a recording session. What was that like?

He was in the control room. And, of course, we were in the main studio room. And he would listen to each one of us individually. And the critiquing wasn’t like (angry yelling sounds), it was, “you guys are really knocking this one out”. He was really generous and encouraging. He was wonderful. He was so sweet. And so nice. And Priscilla was there as well. You talk about two beautiful people, oh my gosh (laughs). It was a dream come true. We could not even believe when we got the phone call that Elvis wanted us to sing on his album that he was doing. But what happened was, we had done the background vocals on the demo for “Suspicious Minds”. Our friend Mark James wrote “Suspicious Minds” and we had recorded the background vocals for the demo and Elvis walked by Mark’s office and the demo was playing. And that’s when Elvis said “I want that song. I want those girls.”  That was the only time I met him. Then afterward, when I left to go to California, the girls did more work with him, but I skipped town (laughs).

That’s incredible. 

Yeah. You know, a very interesting fact that I have been negligent in even talking about when I’ve done these interviews is that, in the Garcia band, Ron Tutt was the drummer. And so, Ron and I were both in the Garcia band at the same time, and he was also Elvis’s road drummer. So, we had this thing in common. Every once in a while, we would talk about Elvis, but not very much. And this one time, we were making Cats Under the Stars, I believe, and he had to leave early because he was about to go on tour with Elvis. And I said, “I don’t know why I’m asking you this right now, but when you see Elvis next, will you tell him ‘hello’ for me?” And he said “sure”. And it was just a few days later, I had emergency surgery and I was coming out of recovery, in my hospital room, and Ron Tutt called me told me that Elvis had died. And Ron said, “I did see him. And I told him about you.” And Elvis replied, “Well, tell her hello and I hope I get to see her again.” And that was it. 

Wow. That is chilling. Moving on, I read that the first time you ever performed in front of a live audience was your debut with the Grateful Dead on 12/31/71. Is that true? Was it really just studio work prior to that night?

Yep, I was a studio rat. It was all earphones and arranged & produced music. And then I went from that universe to the Grateful Dead universe, which is the complete opposite! (laughs) And that’s what attracted me to that band. I thought, “How in the world did they do that?” And, when I first saw them, I turned to the person next to me, and I said, “When I sing again, it’s going to be with that band.”

How long did it take to make that adjustment from only singing in-studio to the concert stage? You know, relying on on-stage monitors rather than headphones?

It was tough and it was an adjustment as far as the technical step that goes along with singing live. But there was also the fact that I was the first and only girl in that boy’s club and, the audience, I had to win them over. You know, to prove that I wasn’t some schmuck up there trying to take over the Grateful Dead or something (laughs). So, I had both of those things going on to where I had to plow through that reality and plow through the reality of, ‘I don’t have my earphones!’, and to deal with that little tiny monster in front of me while the loudest band in the world is behind me (laughs).

Do you feel like you experienced some pushback at first from fans who were maybe hesitant to have a female member in the band?

Well, you know, that’s a good question. I’m sure that was happening, and happening more than I knew because I wasn’t around everybody all the time. I was around the band and it was, you know, a secluded atmosphere of the band life. So, I don’t know what all went on outside of that. I expected that that was happening but it never did really deter me. I just had to press through everything.

I’m sure you get asked this a lot but, are there any particular stories or memories from the Europe ‘72 tour that stand out to you that you want to share?

Well, outside of just the shows themselves and getting to sing in those beautiful theaters, you know, like the Olympia Theatre in Paris and all that, was our bus tour going through the European cities where there were castles and somebody on the bus would say, “Castle on the right!”, or, you know, “Castle on the left!”. And, that was amazing. Just being on the bus was fantastic.

Were you part of the “Bozos vs. Bolos” bus escapades that occurred during that tour?

I can’t say for certain which bus I was on. You know, in one minute, I think I was on the Bozo bus…or maybe it was the Bolo bus. I don’t know (laughs). 

You mentioned in an interview several years ago that someday you would maybe hope to go back and perhaps touch-up and reissue the 1975 Keith & Donna album that you and Keith recorded. Was that still an idea?

It’s an idea, but it would take so much work to pull that off. But it’s still a desire, so we’ll see if that comes to fruition or not. But it would take a lot of work and a lot of time to put that together.

In 1977, Terrapin Station was released, and that had your first studio recording with the Dead as a lead singer and songwriter with “Sunrise”. It’s beautiful and, kind of like “Palm Sunday”, is a very unique song in the Grateful Dead/JGB world. Did the band encourage you to write more material?

Jerry did. When we knew that we were going to be making another record, Jerry said, “You need to write a song for the record.” And I said, “Okay!” (laughs) I had been hanging around Rolling Thunder, the medicine man, and that’s where “Sunrise” came from. There were sunrise services where he had performed that I was at. So there just really was something very spiritual about writing that song. But Jerry was the one who mostly encouraged me to do that.

Did you ever have an opportunity to try to work with either Robert Hunter or John Perry Barlow on songs?

I think Hunter wrote a couple of songs for me, but it wasn’t quite… I think he was thinking, ‘Well, how do I write for a girl?’ So, he was trying to write girly things and I wasn’t interested in girly stuff. You know? I wanted Hunter (laughs). So, I never really did anything with them. And Barlow? No, I never worked with him. But I loved him dearly. And we got to be better friends, even in the past years. And I saw him right before he passed and he was just a cool, great guy. Loved Barlow. And I loved Hunter too. Oh, my gosh. Loved him dearly.

I want to talk about Keith, for just a minute, if you don’t mind. I feel like there’s really not much written about him, in terms of interviews or anything really in-depth. So, I just wanted to see if you could sort of clear up to some of his admirers and fans what his personality was like. What was it like to play with your husband in a major touring band?

Well, it’s like A-to-Z. You have things that are just really, really awesome about that whole situation. And then you have the downside, which is a husband and wife being together 24 hours a day, you know, so on that level it was just the gamut of whatever was going on at the time. But when I first heard Keith play the piano, I just couldn’t believe it. And we were actually going out together before I ever heard him play. I had never heard him play before. And when I finally did hear him play, I just went ‘oh my gosh, I get this, too?’ (laughs). And that’s why I had the confidence to go up to Garcia and say “he’s going to be your next keyboard player.” It’s because I knew that Keith had the goods.

But he grew up in a classical musical family. His mother was an opera singer, his father was an opera singer and music teacher, and very classical oriented. And then once Keith got to be about 14, he started playing jazz. And that’s when I first heard him play, he was in a jazz trio. And then I heard the Grateful Dead and how they are very jazz-oriented in their approach to music. Because it’s a listening experience. Where they listen to one another so intently that they can do whatever they want to do, and they’re playing as one person. And that’s what I noticed in the Grateful Dead. And that’s what I heard in Keith’s playing, and I knew he could play with the band, I just knew it.

How familiar were you with their music prior to approaching Garcia?

Well, I was listening to Live Dead a lot. I was listening to American Beauty and Workingman’s Dead. Everything that they had out before we joined the band, I was familiar with.

I know Keith primarily stuck to acoustic and some electric piano. Was there ever talk of him adding an organ? Was the choice of instrumentation primarily his decision? 

I’m not sure how to answer that. You know, Pigpen was a major, major organist for the band. And, for just a little while, you know that Keith and I were in the band with him, as well. But Keith was a piano guy. He just was. And the only reason that he went to the electric piano is, it was just easier to be on the road and have that rather than the nine-foot Steinway. Which, I mean, we had one in our house! (laughs) But he wanted that at gigs. And it was a step down for him musically when he had to go electric. But still, you have to deal with what you got.

Speaking of Pigpen, do you remember the first time you met him? What would you say you valued most about your time with him?

 Well, by the time Keith and I met him, he was really sick already. Which is another kind of strange thing because when I went up to Garcia and said, “Keith is your next keyboard player”, we had no idea that Pigpen was sick and that they were looking for, you know, possibly another player. But he was the diffused Pigpen by the time we met him, instead of the outrageous Pigpen that everybody knew because he was so sick. But he was the most beautiful man. And when we were in Europe, Keith and I spent a lot of time with Pigpen. And he was just…we just fell in love with him. And I’m sorry that we didn’t get more time with him. He was a sweetheart.

Taking a look at some of the Dead songs you were most known for singing on: “Cassidy”, “Playing in the Band”, “The Music Never Stopped”, “Looks Like Rain”; how were the vocal parts developed for those songs? Did they mostly come about organically in a rehearsal setting or would you sit down with Bobby, or anyone else, and try to specifically work stuff out?

Not a lot was planned out with the Grateful Dead (laughs). It just happened when it happened. And, with Bobby and me on “Looks Like Rain”, we were basically doing a duet. You know, by the end of the time that we were doing that song together, it was a duet. And you had to get the phrasing right and that kind of thing. So that was something that you worked on. But you know, the parts were there. And you just did your thing. But as far as sitting down and just saying, “Okay, let’s figure this thing out,” you know, that wasn’t the case (laughs). 

That’s pretty much the response I was hoping for. And that’s the beauty of this whole thing.

Yeah, it’s the whole beauty of the Grateful Dead. It’s spontaneous and… it’s the beauty of the Grateful Dead.

Were there any songs that were particular favorites of yours to perform live with the Dead?

Well, the ones you mentioned, of course. But really all of them because the songs were different every night, even though the chord structure was the same, everything between the chords was not the same. And, that’s what made the band so interesting, and why the audience didn’t want to miss a single concert, even though they would play the same songs, they were going to hear something different every time they came to a gig. And so, when you asked me that, there’s not a song or some songs that I elevate higher than others. Because, on one night, one may be my favorite. And the next night, another would be my favorite. 

In the last couple of years, you’ve made some appearances with Dead & Company. How does that sort of thing come about? Logistically speaking. Is that planned out through management ahead of time or do you talk to Bobby or someone in the band and say, “Hey, let’s get together and do something.”?

For those gigs, Matt Busch, he’s the guy with Bobby that kind of takes care of the business around the band, he called me and basically, you know, Bobby was asking, ‘did I want to come and sing with them’. So, it was not really any more than that. Other than, Bobby and I have remained close all these years. And he’s my brother. And, I mean, I love all those guys. But Bobby and I are, you know, we’re two months apart. We were born in the same year. He was born in October; I was born in August. So, we’ve always had a connection, and we’ve kept that connection. So, I’m sure that it was all Bobby. 

I assume you’d be open to future one-off appearances with them, if given the right opportunity?

 If given the right opportunity, yeah, sure.

Was there ever any talk of you making a guest appearance with the Grateful Dead after your departure in 1979?

Not before Garcia died, no. Afterwards, I did some stuff with…oh, I can’t even remember the names of all the transitions the guys have gone through (laughs), but there was one band that I did a show in Camden, NJ with Steve Kimock & Mark Karan…what was the name of that band?

Ratdog?

No, because it was Mickey & Billy…

The Other Ones?

The Other Ones! (laughs) Anyone who reads this interview is gonna go, “She didn’t know it was The Other Ones?!?” (laughs)… because the fans know more than I do. 

Was there ever any talk about you possibly joining them for the Fare Thee Well shows in 2015?

No. There was talk about it, but not with me. That’s all I’m gonna say about that. 

Other than Bobby, do you still keep in touch with the remaining band members?

 I haven’t seen Phil since we did Move Me Brightly (2012), but then Mickey & Billy I’ve seen quite a few times. And, even with the Donna Jean Godchaux Band and Jeff Mattson, we played on the same festival circuit as Mickey, so I’ve seen those guys in a roundabout way over the years. All of them. 

Aside from music and the graphic design projects you mentioned you’re working on, is there anything else you use as a spiritual or creative outlet these days?

 Well, I would have to localize that down to my family. My husband is fantastic. I have both of my boys, Zion & Kinsman, you know they’re the band Boombox, and Kinsman lives about two miles on one side of our house and Zion lives about two miles on the other side of our house with my grandson, so we are a tight core. We just couldn’t be any tighter. And to me, that is very, very spiritual and secure. It’s a bottom line. I have to have that. 

What is it like to see your two sons performing music together?

Oh, you have no idea (laughs). It’s just tremendous seeing them play together. And, this is a funny aside, but Zion says that a lot of the times when they introduce themselves as brothers, people always reply, “You guys don’t look anything alike! You don’t even look like you’re in the same family!” You know, because Zion is Keith’s son and Kinsman is David’s son, so that’s where you get the Godchaux-MacKay thing.

Photo by Susana Millman