The Hackles recently released their first official album as a trio, titled What a beautiful thing I have made, via Jealous Butcher Records. It builds on two previous albums from the outfit, but with this album Halli Anderson emerges here as a fully-fledged band member, joining Kati Claborn and Luke Ydstie on the project. If you’re thinking, “Aren’t they in other bands?”, the answer to that is affirmative. Kati Claborn and Luke Ydstie also play in Blind Pilot and Halli Anderson is in River Whyless and Horse Feathers.
Those bands have hardly been strangers in recent years, but when Halli Anderson moved to Astoria, Oregon, only a few doors down from her musical compatriots, it seemed like only a matter of time before a new record would be born for The Hackles. This new era for the band and the expansive new album make quite a statement about an individualistic approach to songwriting, allowing ideas and explorations that might produce “weird” results. Cutting down on self-censorship and keeping unusual thoughts and ideas in the songs as they developed is part of what makes this album such a varied journey and also what allows it to carry occasionally weighty themes in an accessible way. I spoke with the trio about the way in which they feel their chosen locale impacts their work, being “Team Keep It”, and song building for this album.
Hannah Means-Shannon: Tell me about Hackles releases leading up to this one. Is this the first time that Halli has been part of a record for Hackles?
Kati Claborn: This is the first time that Hackles has released as a trio. Halli is on both of our previous albums but wasn’t a full member yet.
HMS: So the same quality product, just different nomenclature?
Halli Anderson: I was just worming my way in! [Laughs] You can kind of listen sequentially and feel me inserting myself into things.
HMS: That does help explain to me why these songs feel so certain of themselves and how you all are already so comfortable together. It doesn’t feel like a first album. But I also know you are in other bands who have played together, so it turns out that it’s all of those things.
Kati: It’s all of the above.
Halli: Not to mention that I live four or five houses down, so we’re probably thinking the same thoughts. Using the same sewer systems. It’s all connected. [Laughter]
HMS: You’re making me think of those fungus networks that they say exist in forests, linking everything together.
Kati: Totally!
Halli: Our thoughts are traveling through the air.
HMS: In all seriousness, I was wondering about that. A particular place really does affect how one makes art, and what kind of art ones makes, I think. I’m from Western North Carolina and that has a huge impact on its art communities.
Luke Ydstie: Absolutely.
HMS: Do you like the impact of Astoria on your work? Is it voluntary or involuntary?
Kati: That’s a good question. You definitely can’t help it. Astoria is a pretty dramatic place. It’s got steep hills and we can both see the river from our windows. We see all the ships and the changing colors. We all saw the snow in Washington this morning when we woke up. That’s involuntary, but I think some of it’s voluntary, too. I think we all really feel a pretty serious connection to this place and we like it a lot. We want it to be a part of our artistic output, I think.
Halli: I have a love affair with this town. I wouldn’t want to only write about another place. If there are any bummer moods on the record, though, it’s because we all have vitamin D levels that are dangerously below healthy. If you’re into writing a song on a rainy day, though, it’s a songwriter’s paradise. It’s definitely a good place to create and I think we enjoy that. A lot of times at the end of the summer, we get really sick of the sun and we’re just dying for that Pacific Northwest front to come in off the river.
Kati: Then you can guiltlessly decide to stay inside.
Halli: It might be a similar type of person who decides to plant roots here.
HMS: I feel like you can experience time differently on a rainy day. It feels less intense. You don’t feel like you’re having to cut yourself off from the business outside to work on something.
Luke: I totally agree.
Kati: Luke, for instance, on “Hum with the Worms” ties into that. I think that song represents a little bit of our world, the Pacific Northwest, and how green it is. It kind of consumes us.
Luke: That song has definitely got rainy day vibes and vibes of blackberries and ivy overtaking everything!
Kati: It’s the impermanence of a wet climate. Everything gets taken over.
Halli: You can’t fight the vegetation here. You can’t fight the way the water’s flowing. There’s a loss of control that we talk about on the record and that alone stems from the place. Maybe I’m reading things in a little but I think a lot of that stems from being here where we are more subjects to the environment more than we are controlling it. The environment is a strong hand here.
Luke: In that song, ivy and blackberries are always threatening to overtake everything around. I usually have to go for a machete. It comes from working out in the yard and imagining years going by and the house becoming covered with ivy. It’s a little bit of a post-apocalyptic scenario there, but it’s easy to imagine.
HMS: I can see a connection here to the song “Birdcage” because that’s about an even bigger jumping off point between town life and life outside a town where nature is totally in control. I heard there was a local news article about a town dweller who killed a deer that inspired some of these ideas.
Halli: The deer are also a prevalent element in Astoria. You usually don’t touch the deer that are in the city limits. That’s illegal. That article was terrifying, inspiring, and exciting, all at the same time. I don’t know how I feel about it, which is probably why it’s in the song. When I’m confused by something, I try to work it out by writing about it. I like that he’s providing venison for his family. Part of me thinks that it’s kind of cool. But the other part of me thinks, “Put that gun in a locker. Don’t do that in town.”
But that whole character inspired this guy in my mind, which I continued to compare to a number people I’ve known. I probably shouldn’t do this, but I categorize a type of male figure in my mind who maybe is not really with the times, who’s possibly heavy in the patriarchy, and maybe took a different route in the pandemic, decided not to mask, and has broken some rules. Maybe he’s really into the second amendment. It’s a kind of character who I grew up around and can love and be friends with, but disagree with on general political and moral things.
In “Birdcage” it’s a conversation with this guy in my mind. One of them being a religious farmer who I grew up with and was a friend. This is an individual in my mind who I’d love to tackle subject with, but I’m too afraid. [Laughs]
Luke: So you just wrote a song!
Halli: This is my cowardly way of getting my thoughts out into the world without meeting any of these guys face-to-face. That’s where I am in life right now.
HMS: Did your bandmates encourage you towards that edge?
Halli: The Hackles do encourage anything out of the ordinary, anything that’s a little weird. If I play a funky note, oftentimes they are all about it. There are no rules in The Hackles. Kati encourages me and supports me if I’ve got something I want to say.
HMS: As audience to these songs, I’ve noticed that lyrically, they feel like things that you wanted to talk about, but I really appreciate the uniqueness of what you talk about. There is pressure when making songs to make them very generally and accessible, and I can understand that need, but I actually appreciate hearing something I haven’t exactly encountered before.
Halli: It is a challenge for me. When writing blurbs about the songs, it’s hard because there’s not something pat to say. They are more exploratory and there’s something I can’t quite put my finger on. I don’t necessarily come to any conclusion.
Luke: It’s more that the song is a question rather than a statement. So often, too, you write a verse, and it’s kind of about something, or contains imagery about something, and then you find something that seems like it could be a theme. That could be a way to find more lyrics. Sometimes you don’t want to explore an idea further, though. There could be room for another verse, but you say, “No, I’ll ruin it if I say anything more about that. I want it to sit here.” I don’t want to change it or close it off. I don’t want things to be certain. I don’t want a song to say how I definitely feel about something. Maybe that has something to do with how I feel in life, too.
Kati: I was going to say, it’s very rare that I feel certain about anything.
Luke: I think it’s trying to find ways to explore ideas that you really are wondering about, and then finding combinations of words that feel sparky and unusual. That’s what I try to do.
Kati: I try to say things and think about things in way that isn’t common.
Luke: But regarding the pressure to smooth things out and generalize, that is definitely a thing. You have to be careful not to edit things out. If you come up with a weird line, you may find it funny or interesting, but then say, “Yeah, but that can’t stay in.” Then you have to say, “Nope!”
Kati: You have to say, “Keep it! Keep it!”
Halli: That’s what I mean. This is Team Keep It!
Kati: Go with your gut. Weirdness is classy.
HMS: I can see what you mean about not wanting to dispel a mood or feeling that a phrase creates and if you go in guns blazing, it can just evaporate.
Halli: A song is elusive. You have to not look at it directly. Pretend it’s not there and write nebulously around it in the hopes that you’ll complete the circle.
HMS: It’s something to look at out of the corner of your eye.
Halli: Never look a song in the eye when it’s being written!
HMS: I think a lot of the complexity we’re talking about on this album also extends to the music that you have developed. How do you bring music and lyrics together?
Kati: Generally, songs come fully-formed from one of us. Me and Luke do more co-write stuff.
Luke: Halli’s two songs on the record came fully-formed with chords and lyrics. Pretty much Kati’s did, too. All of mine were heavily helped and edited by Kati. I have stronger opinions about musical ideas than lyrics. I usually start with music.
Kati: I often start with lyrics or do lyrics and music at the same time.
HMS: There are a lot of layers to the songs. Is any of that early-on, or do you develop that together?
Halli: My songs were pretty barebones. Violin is my main go-to. I’ve played guitar very basically for a long time. I really just use the guitar as a songwriting tool while I’m trying to work on melody. I came to Luke and Kati with a very simple guitar part, the lyrics, and the melody. Everything you hear in my songs was developed afterwards. That included adding Dan Hunt, in the studio, on drums. He has a big hand in the feel to things because those drum rhythms are a big hand in “Birdcage.”
Kati: We sent Dan demos, but we didn’t really guide him. He had a lot to do with how all the songs came together.
Halli: A lot of the other parts were developed together in the group, in the group-mind.
Kati: The hive mind! Ew, I don’t want to say “hive mind”! Gross! [Laughs]
HMS: Sometimes the subjects or questions that the songs raise could be seen as quite heavy, but I find that the music is very reflective. That’s gentler or more upbeat. That provides a way in for the audience to think about these things.
Kati: I think that’s the way that we think about it. Things are heavy, but we are always trying to find a grain of hope to hold into that things can be better.
Halli: I love a major key song that’s singing about the end of the world! I like getting tricked by that! [Laughs] I think we can be pretty existential, but we’re all very hopeful people, so we put those two things together.
