Dolly Dagger is an independent Rock musician with a small band who hails from Australia but resides in LA where she has lived and worked for some time. Bandmates include Jesse McInturff, who also composes for film and TV, and drummer and fellow Aussie Danni Ammon. Releasing a few singles over time, the group have honed their sound and their themes in ways that have always been interesting, but the recent release of “Nightmare”, alongside its video, shows they are heading in really compelling directions. With a heavier sound and more detailed lyrics dealing with dreams and goals transforming into troubling limitations, “Nightmare” opens up possibilities for audiences to confront their own aspirations and seek greater freedom.
The video for “Nightmare” shows off Dolly Dagger’s great love for The X-Files and weird science fiction traditions, and brings out elements of hopefulness in the track as the protagonist searches for something to hold onto, maybe the sense of wonder itself. I spoke with Dolly Dagger about the ways in which “Nightmare” shows a development for the band, what it might say about the EP that they are recording at the moment, and about her hard work bringing the evocative sci-fi video to life.
Hannah Means-Shannon: I’ve been following the singles that you’ve been releasing for a while and I’m happy to hear that you’re planning an EP coming up. Did releasing singles help you decide on sound directions?
Dolly Dagger: I think musicians tend to write. That’s what we write, that’s what we do. That doesn’t mean that everything that we write needs to be heard or fits together easily. Sometimes it has a better life in other projects or in a different use rather than in a particular band. All of us in my band write, and all of get influenced by what we’re listening to, as well.
HMS: I’m sure that individuals have their own creative development, too, separate from a particular creative outlet.
Dolly: Right. It was good to sit down together and say, “What do we actually sound like? What do we enjoy the most? What’s the most authentic?”
HMS: For “Nightmare”, do you think that’s representative of some of the choices on the EP coming up?
Dolly: It is the lead, title track of the EP as well. When I was looking at all of the tracks and all of the themes, it all came down to lyrics, really. I think “Nightmare” embodies the EP in the sense that all the songs came from the same era of writing. There are lots of themes of dreaming, asking, “Am I dead?” or “Is this real?” Sonically, you might even say that it’s a little safe compared to some of the other tracks, but that’s where we get to have more fun.
HMS: As a Rock fan, I’m happy to hear what you’re saying, because I think “Nightmare” is in some ways a heavier song than your past music.
Dolly: Yes, it definitely is. There’s a nice balance. I like heaviness, but I like it to be melodic. There’s a balance between the Pop-leaning melodies that usually come to me and taking them to a darker place. Jesse has a great hand in that. He’s the guitarist and we’ve written all the songs on this EP together. He’s one of the “agents” in the video.
HMS: I think “Nightmare” has some great bass elements and guitar spotlights, but I also think that the lyrics don’t hold back at all in terms of story, but also, they are expansive. That’s part o the driving feeling of the song.
Dolly: Cool. I felt like I was trying to say a few things, and fit it into the context of where it was all coming from, and it ended up as not-quite-singing in some of the verses. It’s making statements.
HMS: There are some elements that are almost chant-like or spoken word. I’m reminded how much Punk music uses spoken word and makes it a structural thing. It’s not exactly a chorus, but it’s almost that the vocals are playing a structuring role.
Dolly: There are some particular cadences in there that are rhythmic.
HMS: I heard that song started with a certain riff idea from Jesse that ignited some vocal ideas from you. Is that typical of your co-writing process?
Dolly: Yes. This riff that started it all is one that Jesse didn’t have any particular feelings about and thought it was “forgettable”, so he almost didn’t send it to me. But when I first heard it, I felt a kind of tension. It’s the main riff that’s in the verses. The words just kind of came and fell out of me. There wasn’t a melodic feel, but a rigid, intense feel, and that led my vocals. I think that’s why they ended up being more chant-like. Or like talking.
HMS: I think the way that it’s set up is really crisp and clear, too, so the vocals and the instrumentation are not fighting each other for attention. The vocal choice probably helps with that.
Dolly: I forget to listen to those types of things in our songs. Once other people start to hear it, then I notice what they pick up on. There were other layers on that song that we deleted and we had a million ideas. Keeping it simple felt like the right thing to do, rather than being intense or messy. It didn’t need to be a thousand layers. There’s only one vocal on the verse, rather than stacking a bunch of layers. It’s a challenge to know where to leave breath and making sure not to mess with things.
HMS: Was this the first song recorded among the songs that will be on the EP?
Dolly: Interestingly enough, this was actually the last one recorded at the same time we recorded previous singles “Break and Bend” and “Say What You Wanna”. We did a big session with our Producer in a cabin to get those tracks, and we focused for three or four days just recording guitar and figuring out tone. That’s when we tried everything and decided what to delete. Then, we ended up doing a drum day which captured for “Nightmare” as well. Then, the other songs that will be on the EP are actually being recorded right now. They are just about ready. We are putting some final touches on it.
HMS: Did I hear something about Halloween as a target time for the EP?
Dolly: That’s the idea! I just have to make the deadlines. [Laughs] I need a deadline, to be honest, and someone else giving me one is important in my process. I can get out of my own way if I have a deadline. I think it’s a pretty common trait among creatives!
HMS: It’s hard not to want more advice and feedback that just keeps it rolling forever. It’s good to have a point where you have to put down your tools.
Dolly: Absolutely. We’re all perfectionists and nothing will ever be fully done. Sometimes the deadline helps you make a decision on where you want to be at that time. I think it’s important to honor the time that you’re in. It’s a time capsule of that moment.
HMS: I really agree with that. 30 years from now you may do an alternate take on “Nightmare” and that will be of a different time. You’re still recording now, so no pressure, but do you have plans to play live?
Dolly: We want to do a record release show, but otherwise, I have plans to go to Australia next year and I would really love to try to play some shows at home, as well. It would be great to work towards that and see how many of us can get over to Australia and how many places we could play. I am super into going to rural venues and getting back in touch with that.
HMS: Regarding the ideas in “Nightmare”, do you think the dreams and goals we start out with in life, that may have been given to us by others, can become our nightmares if they no longer suit us? Or is it more a nightmare if we abandon all our dreams as soon as we consider ourselves adults?
Dolly: That really hits the point. It’s difficult to stay motivated, for one thing, then there’s societal influence. Even if it’s not a certain person telling you, which I think is very common, we get delivered an idea of what success is meant to look like in certain industries. We’re being told that we have to meet certain markers set by an industry. What I’ve learned more in the past year or so is that there are markers outside of those that are also extremely valuable and career-building, but they just don’t get talked about as much.
Everyone’s career or path can look extremely different. What we get sold, as an idea, can be like the Disney Princess idea, that’s not actually real. That’s where I’ve encountered my dreams changing, when I’ve learned more about what’s actually feasible for me. The goal might not change, but how to get there changes.
HMS: There’s a lot to that about the outward-facing idea of success versus the road to get there, which is often a lot harder than the public knows. It’s understandable because people want to be celebratory and not talk about difficulties in public.
Dolly: Yes, it’s understandable mainly to celebrate the biggest wins, too. But, as an artist, you have to be self-motivated most of the time. That’s the only way. If you look only at end-goals, it will destroy you. You have to look at the steps you’ve taken and celebrate those, too. It’s easier said than done. Creative industries are difficult, and I think some of the entrepreneurship of independent artists has been taken away, but we just have to work harder.
HMS: One of the things that came to mind when we were talking about how much work goes on that the public may never know about was this video for “Nightmare”, because I saw that you were heavily involved in it. I didn’t even want to think about how much work that video must have been! It’s complex, but it’s really well done.
Dolly: The part that gets to me the most is the editing, for everything. We shoot the music video, then I end up editing, because it’s quicker than rotating it to someone else. I wrote and directed it, so I knew exactly the sequence and the order. I had it all story-boarded out before we shot it. It was relatively self-shot and Jesse and I just kept handing off the camera to each other and it was set up in a way that we could do that as we were running around.
I’ve shot a ton of music videos with full crews, and I’ve directed other peoples’ music videos, and I felt like I had enough knowledge to be able to get what I needed to get. I just tried. I did a crash-course on how to use the camera and the best settings for lighting. It’s not perfect, but I think the message, the journey, and the fun are there. It’s poking fun at the X-Files, and aliens, and things, and I think the goal was just to mess around and have fun with it.
It turned out the way that I envisioned, but mainly the editing is the hardest thing. It’s the same with music, since I edit my vocals, and sometimes I edit guitars to move things along. I think those are the skills that you pick up as an independent artist because you have to pick there the budget will go. You become a jack-of-all trades when it comes to music videos and photo shoots and you try to have as much fun as you can.
HMS: As an outsider opinion, all I can say is that this is one of the best music videos I’ve seen from an independent artist in a long time.
Dolly: [Laughs] Wow, thank you! It just came from asking, “What am I capable of shooting with my level of knowledge?” I could see the framing I wanted and how I wanted it to look. I could be behind the camera, so it was easier than having to convey it to someone else. It was fun to see things in my head and try to shoot it. It’s one of those “Trust the process” things. This song doesn’t really follow traditional beats, either, but there is a story to it.
We actually needed the alien to turn into something else, and I was just wandering around a store one day, and I saw that star thing. I thought, “Wow, that’s it!” So the alien turns into a star and then is transported more easily than me having to wheel out a giant alien on a gurney and put it in my car! [Laughs] I didn’t know how to shoot that. Then it came back to life at the end and tried to save me.
HMS: I love the ending.
Dolly: It’s “To be continued.” It’s open-ended.
HMS: I thought that worked really well with the song, because it’s very determined, but it doesn’t really build castles in the air about what the future holds.
Dolly: That’s extremely true. I think that the songs on the EP do tie together well enough that they suggest that there are lots of things in life that we just don’t know. Sometimes we don’t get closure. Sometimes we don’t get what we were looking for and we just have to move on without answers. But I think the EP ties together, as a whole, in a way that might enable us to make more videos that could link to the story of the alien. I hope we will!
