Bun E. Carlos Drums Up More Tricks With ‘Greetings From Bunezuela!’ Debut Solo Album (INTERVIEW)

His stage name aside, drummer Brad M. Carlson, AKA. Bun E. Carlos, is one of the more colorful characters in rock ‘n’ roll, as well as one of the best examples of why Cheap Trick’s visual image quickly became as indelible as their music. With his stocky frame draped in a white short sleeved shirt, loosened tie and black-rimmed glasses, he resembled a Teamster leader more than a rock musician, but combined with guitarist Rick Nielsen’s geeky persona, Cheap Trick offered a distinctive image that illuminated stages from Rockford Illinois to Budokan, Japan.

A tumultuous lawsuit in 2013 found Carlos challenging his former bandmates for his share of the band’s royalties after he was usurped from his drum kit in favor of Nielsen’s son Daxx, a scenario that found him a technical member of the partnership but no longer a working member. The other three members of the band — Nielsen, singer Robin Zander and bassist Tom Petersson countersued, but to no avail. Nevertheless, the band that had become a foremost proponent of American power pop was devoured by its internal schisms and a divisive power struggle that dismayed its fans and altered the brand decisively.

The band reunited, albeit briefly, for this years’s Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, an honor that was long overdue, but future prospects for reconciliation seem dim at best. Nevertheless, Carlos hasn’t been idle. He’s played with several ensembles over the years, among them, Tinted Windows (also featuring Hanson’s Taylor Hanson, former Smashing Pumpkins guitarist James Iha, and Fountains of Wayne bassist Adam Schlesinger), Candy Golde (with John Stirratt of Wilco, Rick Rizzo of Eleventh Dream Day, Mark Greenburg and Nicholas Tremulis) and, most surprisingly, the band he formed in high school, which called themselves the Paegans.

As he celebrates the June 24th release of Greetings From Bunezuela!, his debut solo album comprised of classic cover songs and featuring members of his aforementioned combos and special guests Robert Pollard, Dave Pirner of Soul Asylum, Alejandro Escovedo, Alex Dezen of the Damnwells, Glide took the opportunity to speak to Carlos from the place he still calls home, Rockford Illinois.

For starters, tell us about the new album? How did it come about ?

We were talking about doing a covers album as far back as the ‘70s, but of course we never got around to it. And when the Hall of Fame called, I decided that it was a good time to do it. I work with a couple of different bands. One in Rockford here and one in Chicago, so I figured I could get those guys to play on it. Then it was a matter of calling singers, and the people I called were people that were well represented in my record collection, singers I liked. I started out with Alejandro (Escovedo) and I let him know I wanted to do one of his songs and a Stones song, and he said yes. Then I got hold of Robert Pollard from Guided By Voices, and so we did one of his songs. We had worked together around 15 years ago. I sent him a list of around 15 songs and we originally planned to do a Who song. But then we ended up did a Bee Gees tune. So it kind of went like that.

How many songs were in contention initially?

I had a list of about 100 and narrowed it down to about 30. So I had different lists and when I called a singer I asked them to pick one off a particular list. That kind of thing. Then I did some tracks with a band from Chicago called Candy Golde, with guys from Eleventh Dream Day and guys from Wilco. They each did a song. Then I have a band here in Rockford. We play out on Monday nights at a local bar. Then I farmed a few tracks out to singers in different parts of the country.

It seems like you’re very well connected, especially considering some of the side projects you’ve had in your career outside of Cheap Trick.

After 40 years, you pretty much have a story about every guy in the music business.

So when all was said and done, were you pleased with the results?

I think it turned out really well. All the singers exceeded my expectations. When we played the tracks back in the studio, they sounded really good.

It appears that you could follow Ringo’s template. You’re the famous drummer and you gather all these all-star sidemen to come along on tour and they get a chance to sing their hits.

It’s almost like that on a smaller level.

Do you have any plans to take this project out on tour?

We’re doing a Chicago date in July. I can’t get Pollard because he’s busy with Guided By Voices, and I can’t get Hanson because they’re busy. If I flew all these guys in, I wouldn’t make any money anyway. We’ll roll tape and try to get a good recording, so if we want to market it, we’ll have that. If someone wants to hire us, we’ll hop in the van and get rolling.

So the new album will definitely mark a new beginning for you. Is this your new day job going forward?

Right now, I’ve got a covers record that I’ve always talked about doing and I finally went out and did. I produced it, and that was something new for me, because I had never produced a record before. So we’ll see how it does when it comes out. If something goes great, then yeah, there will definitely be another one and I’ll get a band together to tour. We just have to see how it goes.

If you do decide to go out on tour, then inevitably you will have some people in the audience crying out for Cheap Trick covers. How will you deal with that?

We’ll do a few. I got together with my high school band a couple of years ago and we played our 45th reunion. Then they called up a few weeks later and said, “Hey, you want to do some more gigs?” We did a few more, and we still practice now and then. But I said to those guys, hey listen, we gotta learn “Any Way You Want Me,” “Ain’t That a Shame,” “Good Night Now.” We gotta learn a few tunes here because when people come to hear the band, they’re going to want to hear a Cheap Trick song or two. It would be dumb if I didn’t play that stuff. That’s what I did for 40 years. I haven’t turned my back on it.

When you’ve been in a band that’s been so successful as Cheap Trick, does that put a lot of pressure on you in terms of going forward? Do you feel you now have to match that high bar?

There’s a certain amount of weight on the shoulders. With the guys I’m working with now, we have to really practice to make sure we’re up to that standard. With my high school band, we were playing “Any Way You Want Me” and one guy kept screwing it up, and I said that just can’t happen. I was the drummer in Cheap Trick and people want to hear that Cheap Trick stuff, and we just have to get this right. I’m not going to sit up there on the drums and have you make me look bad. So those guys have to be able to whip it out. They’ve got to be good if they want to do Cheap Trick songs. They have to do them as well as Cheap Trick, or at least try to do them that good.

What is the name of that high school band?

The Paegans. We spelled it P-A-E-G-A-N-S. You had to have a special spelling back in the ‘60s.

These guys must be thrilled to be playing with you.

Oh yeah. Those guys like it and I like it too. It’s like putting on an old pair of shoes or something. “Just like it was 50 years ago!”

Cheap Trick’s success seemed to come about almost by accident. The Live at Budokan album initially didn’t come out here, right?

Yeah, it came out only as an import. CBS Japan was splitting into two company — CBS Japan and Sony Japan. So to commemorate this, they asked a bunch of their artists to do live albums. Bob Dylan did a live album, And then they decided Cheap Trick should do a live album. Whatever bands came over, they would do a live in Japan album. So that’s how that came about. Initially they wanted a double album, but we told them, no, we don’t have time to mix a double album. So we decided to do a single album because we had a new album coming out in America. So they sent us a few prospective record covers, and Tom and Rick decided they didn’t like what they sent over because they decided they didn’t look good, and of course our manager said, don’t worry, it’s only coming out in Japan. It started getting imported to America and then we told them, look, you have to put this out in America. Plus, the foreign royalty rate was only about half of what it is in America. So even though it was selling over here, we weren’t making any money on it. So finally they decided to put it out in America and boom, it took off.

Did you have any idea how huge that album would become?

No. It was a big surprise. We put out Dream Police before Budokan came out and the general plan was to put it (the live album) out in the spring. But the record company was saying, this is going to be the one that puts you over the top. But of course they said that with every record. In early ’79, we had a tour of Europe and another tour of Japan lined up. We were going to be out of the country for about 60 days. And the record company said that when we returned they’d put the Dream Police album out, but while we’re gone, they released the live record. It had been imported like crazy. But they figured that if they put it out here it would sell 200,000 or 300,00 copies to the Cheap Trick fans because that’s what it was selling here. But back in those days, even 250,000 was a bomb. So when we came back, the record company was telling us, this thing had blown up. They put a single out and it became a hit record. And everything changed after that.

How much did it change? You were always a working man’s band.

For two years, we were turning into the most famous opening act in America. We’d open for all these bands throughout the ‘80s, but we weren’t making a lot of money. We were going into debt. When the Budakon album came but, we owed about a million dollars. So we figured we could at least break even because the record would make us some money. We didn’t have any money. We were tapped. So that part turned out well. That was the good side. The bad side was we were instantly famous. We made the cover of Rolling Stone, and so when we’d arrive in Lansing, Michigan and check into the Holiday Inn, we’d get get up at one in the afternoon and open the curtain, and suddenly there’s all these people walking around in the parking lot looking for you. So we couldn’t leave the hotel room. We got real famous, but we couldn’t go anywhere, we couldn’t do anything. We couldn’t walk down the street.

But in reality, isn’t that the ultimate goal for every musician — to attain that level of success?

Yeah! You want to have a number one record, and you want to sell 20,000 tickets a night, but  then when you do, you find out all this other stuff comes with it. You have no personal life anymore. You get up in the morning and you go to a radio station, and then you go to a record store to sign autographs, and then you go to another radio station. And then you go to soundcheck. Then it’s dinner time but you can’t eat too much because you have a headlining show in two hours. So yeah, suddenly, things got real busy.

Yet, you kept going for decades after that. So perhaps you learn to reconcile the success with the things you have to go through.

After a couple of years, Tom left the band and we all got a little burned out. You have no time off, and suddenly you don’t even have time to write a song, you don’t have a personal life. You’re never home, you’re living out of a suitcase. There were prices to pay. We wanted to use another producer — we had George Martin lined up — and the record company called us up and said, “This is the dumbest idea we ever heard! You people are nuts!” So the record company was trying to tell us what to do. That’s the way the record business was. You did whatever you could do.

As the archivist for the band, one can only imagine what kind of outtakes and rarities you must have in your vault. Things that never saw the light of day. You must have an amazing collection?

Yeah, there are alternate studio takes. I’d get stuff put on disc or cassette and file it away, and so I pretty much have everything from ’79 on. Whenever, I’d accumulate a box of tapes, we’d put them on the bus when we were out on tour and listen to them at night and review the show. Then we’d go back to them for later albums, when we’d need an extra tune that might be sitting around. We produced about eight CDs for our fan club of live tracks, cover tunes, sound checks and things like that. They were handy for that kind of stuff.

Was that material the source for what you used on the box set?

Some of the stuff on the box set came from my stash…Some of that was actually on cassette.

Any chance any of the fan club material will ever get a wider release?

Well the other three guys are working with new management, a new record company, and they’ve never said a word about any of that stuff, so it will probably remain in the vaults, at least for now.

It was wonderful to see the band reunite at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction ceremony. So many bands that have gone through similar scenarios, where there have been legal disputes, ill will and the like, allow their differences to keep them apart. Yet, you guys were willing to put that aside and come together to accept that honor. It was really admirable. So how did you guys pull it off?

Rick was interviewed beforehand and suggested that maybe there will be two drummers that night. But the Hall of Fame told them. “Don’t bring any extra people to play. We want the four of you guys. We don’t want the extra drummer, we don’t want the keyboard player. We just want the four of you guys up there.” They didn’t want to hear about it. If the original guys aren’t able to do it, they’ll figure something else out, like they did with Deep Purple and Chicago. They had guys that had passed on. But with Cheap Trick, the four guys are still around.

So who made the call? Did Rick call and say, “Hey Bun, I hope you’ll be there?”

I didn’t hear a word from those guys until I saw them at the sound check. The Hall of Fame called all the shots. They called their management and said, “Look, if Bun isn’t playing with them, they’re not playing.” They called my management and said, “Are you ready for the gig?” And I said, yeah, no problem. That’s what they do.

So when you showed up for the sound check, it had to be a bit awkward, no?

Yeah. A bit. Last time I saw those guys we were in settlement talks as the result of a lawsuit I had filed against them. It was definitely different circumstances.

When you were all on stage and making the acceptance speeches and then performing together later, it seemed like there was no ill will whatsoever. It seemed very natural.

Well, we have known each other almost 50 years, so when we are in the same room together, everything’s pretty cordial. “Hey, how are you doing? What’s going on?” That kind of stuff. It’s when we’re in different rooms, things change. People came up to me and it was like, “Did you hear what those guys said about you on the radio yesterday? Did you read what they said about you in Rolling Stone? It was like, I know. I was getting called names, them saying I was a bad guy or whatever. But face to face, it’s like, “Hey, how’s it going?” It was pretty cordial. My management let them know ahead of time that at the Hall of Fame we should all play nice. We don’t need to air our dirty laundry in front of 15,000 people, or get up there and piss and moan.

How about in private? Did you try and clear the air?

No.

Nevertheless, there was a lot of anticipation from the fans that maybe this would lead to an ongoing reunion or mark some kind of new beginning. Hopes were raised.

I know. That could happen at some point, some day, but I really don’t see it. I had to take these guys to federal court to get the money I was owed. The checks stopped coming for a year, so I had to get lawyers and drag these guys into federal court. So it wasn’t all happy and nice. They knew what they were doing when they stopped paying me. So there you go. It’s too bad it had to go that way. But look at the Beatles. When they broke up they were in court for the next 22 years.

Happily and ultimately the surviving members were able to make amends.

Well, stranger things have happened. We could all get together in the future. I don’t see it happening, but it could. I’m not ruling it out.